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  #171  
Old 11-02-12, 22:22
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DirtyWorks DirtyWorks is offline
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Originally Posted by Briant_Gumble View Post
Both decisions influenced by greed and ego, not logic.
Let's hope they keep it up, eh?

As for "the number" dead from EPO, it's nearly impossible to get it right. I think 6-16 is a solid statistic.
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  #172  
Old 11-02-12, 22:44
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Thank you - was about to ask.
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  #173  
Old 11-02-12, 23:04
Dazed and Confused Dazed and Confused is online now
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Default Little man Kimmage fighting on his own.

While the big powerful teams sends out one press release after another claiming squeaking clean operation, Mr Kimmage continues to fight for a better sport pretty much on his own. Courageous, but perhaps foolish.

On his own you ask? Where is the $50K bump from any of the teams.
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  #174  
Old 11-03-12, 00:59
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It's not enough.
The law is free to all.

It's not a privilege or only for the wealthy.

Frivolous legal action is only for the wealthy and stupid.

PK is not defending himself. Mealy making a submission with his legal team of pro bono lawyers.

Money is not an issue. The law does not determine itself upon wealth.


Watch.
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  #175  
Old 11-03-12, 03:33
keeponrollin keeponrollin is offline
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Originally Posted by Le Baroudeur View Post
I just hope Paul stays focused. He does seem to have a tendency to grab for the shotgun and take the whole leg rather than cutting out the gangrene with a scalpel leaving at least some flesh to heal.

I know some here like the napalm and uzi approach, but a surgical strike is more likely to benefit the patient here imho.

Time to make a stack of Marmalade sandwiches.
I'm afraid that the only option for cleaning up the UCI is:

Quote:
"....take off & nuke it from orbit"


I wonder if News International would like to take the opportunity to rehabilitate their reputation somewhat, by explaining why they let Paul go from the Sunday Times when they did, & whether they had any inputs from the UCI leadership before the decision ????

I don't think I'm alone in being baffled by the decision at the time, & to this date. PK has written some brilliant stuff, especially outside of cycling, & has won numerous awards for his work while he was on the payroll of the ST. When you look at some of the donkeys they still have on staff, you have to wonder if they were told to give PK the push ?

If this were the case, it would be a substantial step towards proving that PMcQ & HV were engaged in a campaign against PK.
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  #176  
Old 11-03-12, 05:04
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Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post

As for "the number" dead from EPO, it's nearly impossible to get it right. I think 6-16 is a solid statistic.
I think you will be under by a factor or 5-10 at least, likely more. Your number - presumably - focuses on the relatively high profile cases ie the known cyclists, and those whose deaths are more or less directly attributable.

Since EPO came on in 1985, but particularly in the last decade, we can expect many many athletes in second tier cycling events and in other sports to have died. Many of these deaths would never be directly attributed to EPO, but be of "vague" cardiovascular origin, eg."heart attacks" or "cardiovascular event". I am not sure if any post-mortem blood analysis would look at external EPO supplementation, so you would never formally see this on a death certificate.

Then there is the longer term mortality, and morbidity that eventually leads to mortality. Increasing the Hct above certain threshold values is highly likely to cause long term damage that may only manifest itself after years/decades, eg via damage to the microcirculation in the brain, etc. There are many ex-riders with long term cardiovascular complications that are likely to have as a primary cause the use of PED's incl. EPO.

It's a bit like steroid and hgh abuse. The exact impact is likely to be grossly under-reported. The human body is a finely honed system with many homeostatically controlled subsystems. Mucking around with these systems via drugs, unless indicated via specific diseases, is always likely to lead to problems.

Writing this post has just triggered another thought. It would be interesting to see/review the animal toxicology on EPO. In animal tox studies they basically dose the drug at high levels to see what the side effects are, and this includes lethal doses. These studies preceed human safety studies, and are necessary to avoid problems in patients (remember thalidomide), and to set a safe dose level at which the therapeutic effect prevails the side effect (if any at that dose).

So back to the thread. UCI has a distinct responsibility to manage the safety of its athletes with regard to controlling PEDs. What is stopping EPO use if the testing frequency is such that most athletes have an almost zero chance of getting caught (particularly if it is known that no testing will take place at an upcoming event - remember a recent ToC), and if certain team managers are given a tour of testing facilities and explained the ins and outs of the testing process.

The "dark era" of the past 20 years is proof that testing has been a total failure. Widespread doping, relatively few positive tests. The USADA case is proof of the failure of testing implementation by UCI. Not because tests are not available (at least in the past decade or so). But because the implementation by the sports administrator has been woefully inadequate/incompetent, one could perhaps even argue criminally so.
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Last edited by Tinman; 11-03-12 at 05:10.
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  #177  
Old 11-03-12, 05:52
Adamastor Adamastor is offline
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Default Kimmage Evidence?

Sorry if already mentioned, will PK's 28 (29?) pages and 55 exhibits be made public at some stage?
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  #178  
Old 11-03-12, 06:03
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Sorry if already mentioned, will PK's 28 (29?) pages and 55 exhibits be made public at some stage?
Apparently not. I asked same. Swiss closed court case.

Which is why the content here in the clinic is highly useful. And which is why we feel the loss of the deleted previous Kimmage thread, and would like to see this resurrected.

See discussion in the "about forum" section in the mods thread for further detail.
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  #179  
Old 11-03-12, 06:23
Adamastor Adamastor is offline
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Apparently not. I asked same. Swiss closed court case.

Which is why the content here in the clinic is highly useful. And which is why we feel the loss of the deleted previous Kimmage thread, and would like to see this resurrected.

See discussion in the "about forum" section in the mods thread for further detail.
What do you mean with "Swiss closed court case" ???
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  #180  
Old 11-03-12, 06:39
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Originally Posted by Adamastor View Post
What do you mean with "Swiss closed court case" ???
Putting this in context, I think he means that the case isn't open to the public and therefore the documents filed by Kimmage aren't available for viewing.
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