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  #31  
Old 11-03-12, 20:39
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is offline
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Originally Posted by silverrocket View Post
Not sure if improved cycling performance from a minute amount of clenbuterol that actually MAY have come from a steak is quite the same as raping children.

More reasonably, would you let your teenagers take driving lessons from someone who may have broken some traffic laws 20 years ago? I would. In fact, I DID take lessons from someone who used to habitually drag race on public streets, and I did it because he was the best driver I knew. Did he teach me to break the law? Nope, he taught me the opposite, and I listened because I knew he had experienced both the good and the bad.

Who better to learn how to avoid going to the "dark side" of cycling than someone who has lived it?
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Originally Posted by gatete View Post
An then to the this mixture the absolute need Alberto has of putting himself in more trouble by starting a team that will dope kids specially now with all the LA drama where everything is coming out. I think if we were to think cynically about Alberto's intentions for this team is to maybe he saw an opportunity to "cleanse" a little about his doping past and it would look like a nice gesture specially with kids involved. The notion that they will utilize organized doping in it seems too far fetched for my liking.
+1 to both

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Originally Posted by silverrocket View Post
That would require a lot of money, actually, what with the postage all the way to Minsk and everything.
Oooh mean
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Originally Posted by Afrank
Froome see's how Contador is already dressing himself in yellow in anticipation for July, how he rides with no helmet without fear, how he and his loyal second in command Kreuziger have grown thin, how he takes on the sprinters in a bunch sprint, and how Contador has given previews of what others will face in July in the form of Giro 2011 pictures....

...and he feels fear...
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  #32  
Old 11-03-12, 20:43
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
So you are in favour of 17-18 year olds being groomed? Right...
No I believe there is nothing wrong with 17-18 year olds getting a chance to ride in a junior team created by the best stage racer of this generation and arguably a bit of a hero for lots of young (Spanish) cyclists.
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Originally Posted by Afrank
Froome see's how Contador is already dressing himself in yellow in anticipation for July, how he rides with no helmet without fear, how he and his loyal second in command Kreuziger have grown thin, how he takes on the sprinters in a bunch sprint, and how Contador has given previews of what others will face in July in the form of Giro 2011 pictures....

...and he feels fear...
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  #33  
Old 11-03-12, 20:44
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Mrs John Murphy Mrs John Murphy is offline
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Originally Posted by silverrocket View Post
Not sure if improved cycling performance from a minute amount of clenbuterol that actually MAY have come from a steak is quite the same as raping children.

More reasonably, would you let your teenagers take driving lessons from someone who may have broken some traffic laws 20 years ago? I would. In fact, I DID take lessons from someone who used to habitually drag race on public streets, and I did it because he was the best driver I knew. Did he teach me to break the law? Nope, he taught me the opposite, and I listened because I knew he had experienced both the good and the bad.

Who better to learn how to avoid going to the "dark side" of cycling than someone who has lived it?
This assumes that he has abandoned the dark-side. And there is slightly more than 'clen from a steak', you know the Puerto problems, the CERA Giro issue, the 2007 TDF, the hanging out with Saiz, Hog and Riis, the Pepe Marti issue, the plasticizers, the TUES and of course the head issue.

Would you let your children hang out with an ex-rapist or drug dealer who may or may not have given up raping people or dealing drugs?
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...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

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Last edited by Mrs John Murphy; 11-03-12 at 20:47.
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  #34  
Old 11-03-12, 21:24
Le Baroudeur Le Baroudeur is offline
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The clinic hits a new low... I hope the regular contributors who are reading this realise what an insult it is to their efforts.

As if post #17 wasn't offensive enough to victims, it is also flawed, and you choose knowingly to propagate that offence to the point of stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Would you let your children hang out with an ex-rapist or drug dealer who may or may not have given up raping people or dealing drugs?
If you want to persist with this offensive analogy then let me point a few things out to you.

By your terms doping is rape.
ergo Alberto raped himself.
so he will rape himself in front of the riders?
or are you suggesting he was raped?
so rape victims should be segregated from society?
and now you are saying he is akin to an enabler of doping to fit your flawed analogy creep?
Yet he was judged to have involuntarily taken a contaminated supplement,
so he involuntarily raped himself without knowing it until told about it...

How about you put just an ounce of thought into your posts before discrediting and insulting every poster on the forum with poorly thought out, defamatory, and offensive rhetoric, and sounding like a complete fool in the process?

Post #17 displays the intellectual tact and capacity of a lentil brained troll.
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  #35  
Old 11-03-12, 21:41
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Mrs John Murphy Mrs John Murphy is offline
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Your argument falls down because you see Contador as the victim rather than the perpetrator.

You must be the first person who sees a doper as akin to a rape victim. Which if we are talking about offensive analogies, then you are really pushing the boat out there.

Yes, Poor Dertie is the victim here, he was just minding his own business when Pepe Marti came up and started injecting him with EPO, next thing he knew, Hog came up and started removing his blood and then re-injecting him with it.

And you think that post 17 was offensive...

The analogy to a rapist/child-molester/heroin dealer/mass murderer, not because there is equivalence between the two activities but because the bottomline is this would you let your children take part in an activity sponsored by someone who has engaged in illegal activities for the whole of their life and shows no evidence of having reformed.

Would you let your children take part in a team run by Armstrong? Hog? Ferrari? Saiz? Michael Jackson? The answer to all of these is no because they, like Contador are unsuitable people to be involved with youth/junior cycling because of their pasts.
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...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal

Last edited by Mrs John Murphy; 11-03-12 at 21:57.
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  #36  
Old 11-03-12, 22:10
Le Baroudeur Le Baroudeur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Your argument falls down because you see Contador as the victim rather than the perpetrator.

You must be the first person who sees a doper as akin to a rape victim. Which if we are talking about offensive analogies, then you are really pushing the boat out there.

Yes, Poor Dertie is the victim here, he was just minding his own business when Pepe Marti came up and started injecting him with EPO, next thing he knew, Hog came up and started removing his blood and then re-injecting him with it.

And you think that post 17 was offensive...

The bottomline is this would you let your children take part in an activity sponsored by someone who has engaged in illegal activities for the whole of their life and shows no evidence of having reformed.

Would you let your children take part in a team run by Armstrong? Hog? Ferrari? Saiz? Michael Jackson? The answer to all of these is no because they, like Contador are unsuitable people to be involved with youth/junior cycling because of their pasts.
BS. My argument expresses no opinion regarding the rider. Instead I address your offensive and flawed sexual abuse analogy, with which you both sought to escalate your unsubstantiated opinion and moral judgement upon a rider with the use of child abuse imagery.

The bottomline is that you have little more regard for either the sentiment of abused children, parents or riders, than the worst thugs in the peloton.

Not bad for a keyboard warrior with pretending to have a moral compass.
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  #37  
Old 11-03-12, 22:24
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No you didn't. You chose to present Contador as akin to a victim than as a perpetrator.

You've not done bad for a keyboard warrior pretending to have a moral compass.

It does amuse me when like the Armstrong fans of old use to claim to speak for all cancer victims, you are somehow able to speak for all rape and abuse victims, and are somehow able to determine what is or is not offensive for them. All the while missing the point of the analogy. But thanks for telling people what to think.

Spare me your faux outrage. This isn't anything to do with the analogy. It is the fact that you don't like the fact that people are questioning whether your boy is suitable to be involved in youth cycling and saying that he isn't.
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...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal

Last edited by Mrs John Murphy; 11-03-12 at 22:29.
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  #38  
Old 11-03-12, 22:55
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Surely, the key question here is "will it do good or bad"

For the youths involved, I'd say 90+% good: the guy is an idol in Spain and does know a bit about cycle racing as well. He'll inspire them, no doubt. The notion that he'll encourage them to dope is really too far fetched, even for the Clinic. Sure, if they go into procycling, they are going to have to make a choice, but I can't see Contador being influential in pushing youths into doping.

For Contador, you could be cynical and see it like Lance & cancer, but one of the problems for the Clinic and cycling just now is that EVERYTHING is seen through Lance tinted glasses.....we need to move on and address the issues of the present and the future, not the past.

For cycling, who is investing money and time in youth development just now?
So I suggest we get off our high horses and either ignore what Contador is doing here, or welcome it.
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  #39  
Old 11-03-12, 23:11
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gatete gatete is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Your argument falls down because you see Contador as the victim rather than the perpetrator.

You must be the first person who sees a doper as akin to a rape victim. Which if we are talking about offensive analogies, then you are really pushing the boat out there.

Yes, Poor Dertie is the victim here, he was just minding his own business when Pepe Marti came up and started injecting him with EPO, next thing he knew, Hog came up and started removing his blood and then re-injecting him with it.

And you think that post 17 was offensive...

The analogy to a rapist/child-molester/heroin dealer/mass murderer, not because there is equivalence between the two activities but because the bottomline is this would you let your children take part in an activity sponsored by someone who has engaged in illegal activities for the whole of their life and shows no evidence of having reformed.

Would you let your children take part in a team run by Armstrong? Hog? Ferrari? Saiz? Michael Jackson? The answer to all of these is no because they, like Contador are unsuitable people to be involved with youth/junior cycling because of their pasts.
I don't quite follow the analogy of the rapist with a doper, but to answer your question, I believe Tiler Hamilton is now providing cycling training. if I had the means, time and money I would let my kids train with him, so now maybe some of you would say but, but he wrote a book, but he's sorry but, but.... it's not the same AC still active.....
If you already made up your mind about the whole Kids and AC thing, then ok but I think some may think investing in the sport is a much needed breath of fresh air, we'll see if this is a wrong move down the road.
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  #40  
Old 11-03-12, 23:57
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It comes down to the question about what is the place of unrepentant dopers in the future of cycling? Should they be involved in cycling?

Some people seem to be saying that 'well we don't care who is investing in cycling as long as there is investment in cycling' - less my country right or wrong and more my sponsor right or wrong, which to my mind seems to be inviting disaster.
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...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
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