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  #1911  
Old 11-04-12, 00:18
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Originally Posted by Merckx index View Post
Can you please confirm this link? I would like to read the full article also.
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  #1912  
Old 11-04-12, 00:33
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Originally Posted by Tyler'sTwin View Post
Didn't Frei say he shot 500 iu IV when he tested positive?
Wasn't his excuse not drinking enough water?
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  #1913  
Old 11-04-12, 01:02
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Question for JV:

You've said that Matt White should have a future in cycling. My question is 'who should have no future in cycling and why?'
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  #1914  
Old 11-04-12, 01:15
JV1973 JV1973 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Question for JV:

You've said that Matt White should have a future in cycling. My question is 'who should have no future in cycling and why?'

My opinion? Ricco is a good example. A guy who kept at it, hard core, long after most others had called a truce. That's just my opinion and its very subjective.
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  #1915  
Old 11-04-12, 01:18
JV1973 JV1973 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
JV you said that CA/GE had every opportunity to ask MW about his past but did not. Did you discuss with MW his doping at USP? Have you discussed past doping with your other riders?

Or do you operate a version of don't ask, don't tell policy, where you do not ask your riders about doping but with the caveat that should a rider be outed you will not sack him (even though he was not forthcoming about past doping)?

I assume that this is what you meant by 'same treatment as the rest of my guys'.

Which brings me back to the question from before - why is Dekker treated differently to dopers who have not yet been outed?

How does keeping a doper who maintains omerta until outed in cycling, help cycling?
If anyone on my team is asked any questions about past doping, by an authority, they are obliged, by their employer to be honest. Policy isn't just for ex-usps riders.

Dekker was tested extensively because his doping was much more recent and extreme than any other member of my team. I wanted to know if his talent was real. I think it is, but the jury is still out.
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  #1916  
Old 11-04-12, 01:19
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Question for JV:

You've said that Matt White should have a future in cycling. My question is 'who should have no future in cycling and why?'

And, yes, I spoke to Matt White about his past doping. Absolutely.
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  #1917  
Old 11-04-12, 01:28
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I am having a little trouble squaring the first and second paragraphs here.

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Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
If anyone on my team is asked any questions about past doping, by an authority, they are obliged, by their employer to be honest. Policy isn't just for ex-usps riders.
Which seems to suggest that you don't ask your riders yourself if they doped on their former teams.


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Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
Dekker was tested extensively because his doping was much more recent and extreme than any other member of my team.
The question would be 'how do you know his doping was more recent and extreme than other members of your team if you haven't asked them?'

Lets say you sign Mr X, he's come up from the US domestic circuit where he is the next big thing. How do you make sure his talent is real? Or what happens if you sign Mr Y from a European WT team - how do you make sure his talent is real? What steps do you take to make sure that they aren't products of the syringe?
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  #1918  
Old 11-04-12, 01:40
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Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
And, yes, I spoke to Matt White about his past doping. Absolutely.
Can you help me out with timelines here. The Armstrong investigation began cSummer 2010, when White was still on your staff. I assume that he had been sacked before investigators came knocking on the door of Garmin otherwise he would have been obliged to talk to investigators the same as active riders?
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  #1919  
Old 11-04-12, 01:58
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Originally Posted by python View Post
he did...

but what seems to be missing from all the comments i read so far, is that the role of epo as a performance enhancer (at the most sophisticated level) - and this is a well known fact to ashenden - the role was evolving from epo being the main blood doping element of a programme (through the 90's up to 00) to the one being a supplemental element being used in combination with blood transfusions from '00-'01 and on. there are a couple of reasons. one, of course, being the epo test introduction in 2000 (2001 in cycling).

the term epo micro-dosing needs to be qualified. it existed both before and after the epo test intro.

prior to the epo test, the riders only had to beat the 50% hct limit. they'd try to quickly build hct with the relatively large subcutaneous epo doses prior to the major races and then maintain their hct - again subcutaneously - (thus the therm a maintenance dose) during a major grand tour. tyler suggests that he was using 2000 iu every 3d day. this was micro-dosing then. it was easy to beat the 50% limit b/c each self-respecting team had spinners.

then around 2000-'01, epo doses (micro-doses) and the injection schedules changed correspondingly because they had to be incorporated into the overall blood doping programme relying on blood transfusions during the major races.

tyler did describe the phenomena in his book though he lacked many technical details he communicated to usada/wada. for example, he described a sophisticated doper advised by ferrari had to stop subcutaneous 2000 i u twice a week and go to a 500-1000 i u every day or 2 intravenously. again, this was required to beat the urine epo test as prior to 2008 the passport at least formally) did not exist.

ironically, according to ashenden et al, this 10 year old (!) epo schedule designed to beat the urine test appears to be also relatively safe today against the fully implemented blood passport.

i freely admit that i did not read the whole ashenden paper referred to by von mises and don't know the doses he used (would like to know though), but reading the abstract the paper appears to have missed the most important - trying to replicated the behavior of a sophisticated doper trying to beat the system.

that the bio-passport failed to catch a twice-a-week micro-dose as opposed to even a smaller dose daily is alarming.
Yes nice summary. thanks . It's also how I interpreted the EPO era. But now for what is happening since... Found this interesting link on Haemassist and other oxygen carrying blood substitutes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haemogl...xygen_carriers
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  #1920  
Old 11-04-12, 04:08
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
I think if anyone was drilling this hard (like I dunno me, for example), JV would walk out of the interview and block their twitter account. Just hazarding a guess.
You rate yourself too highly, unless by "drilling hard" you're referring to masturbatory technique. JV already has you pegged :

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Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
You really need to stop commenting on things that you have zero knowledge about. It brings down the whole group's understanding of the issues and does not contribute anything worthwhile.
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