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  #1921  
Old 11-04-12, 04:11
Argyle_Fan Argyle_Fan is offline
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Smile Many thanks for explanation!

Hello Jonathan - Good to hear from you - thanks for that. Also thanks again from me & everyone else for taking the time to chat to us openly, when really you have no obligation or rational motivation to do so .

Quote:
Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
While my quotes re this during the TdF could seem untruthful, at that time no bans had been given or agreed to by my riders. Why? My guess is that USADA was hoping that there would be a broader truth and reconciliation effort across the sport and that bans would be put aside, as the need for full disclosure from multiple parties would be needed. However, when UCI started kicking up about jurisdiction, etc, they figured it would not be a cooperative effort, but instead a contentious one. Too bad.
Anyhow, at that point, my guess is, they realized the need for 6 mod bans, as no truth and reconciliation would occur.
Yes, that all makes sense now. And to think that I thought that there was something a little nefarious going on - need to learn (yet again…) to trust, and it‘s sometimes hard with pro-cycling, ya know! Sorry again for the excessive interrogation a few posts ago - but I was in fact fairly confident you’d be able to explain in some fashion I was unable to think of.

I’m even more impressed now knowing that your guys and the others went to the front-line with USADA without there even being a discussion of a deal being in place, and completely of their own volition, to improve cycling. Everything I read re. DZ was particularly sad - an abusive relationship with Johan, his breakdown/crying and the family history of course. Not surprised he wanted Travis there during his testimony. (Just out of curiosity - not particularly important - but who was the other guy who wanted Travis present during his testimony?) Any particular reason DZ wanted him there - personal appreciation of Travis’ efforts? I'm not at all surprised that DZ has not had a single unsupportive comment on his blog (out of 50-ish) - shame GH had a few bad comments - not sure why.

I’m still vaguely wondering about whether the riders got offered a choice of dates for their bans - but I guess it’s not much of a step beyond the off-season ban concept - or was it just a coincidence of scheduling etc? I also vaguely wonder your opinions on the ‘off-season’ aspect (which does appear to have at least one precedent).

I guess we don’t really need to ask much about your opinion of the heavily reduced bans - I’d assume you agree with David Millar‘s recent comments on the subject. Do you agree with David that there should not be ‘no consequence’ to their actions? Does this differ in the case of an extended amnesty (any updates on that btw - sounds like it’s been under pretty serious discussion, and I imagine it’ll be on its way sometime, once the details get hammered out between WADA/riders/teams).

So I guess it must have been a source in WADA who leaked the details for the Dutch press report (must have been a knowledgeable source given the accuracy wrt detail). I wonder what could have been their motivation? My guess would be the love of gossip. I wonder why WADA hasn’t made a brief comment, which would easily have been buried in the rest of the news, although I guess it’s not all that important. Would they punish the anonymous leaker if they knew who it was?

How did the guys all feel about being asked to withdraw from Worlds/Olympics selection? Might they have not been asked to withdraw if it were all already out in the public domain (c.f. Millar and the repeal of the UK Olympic ban this year), but riders/USADA didn’t want a media s**t-storm or any implication of a cover-up? I recall that GH was particularly looking forward to his 6th Olympics. Will those who have not retired by then be putting themselves forward for Rio?

Any idea of the riders’ plans during their 'extended off-season’? Is there any particular type of training which can only be utilised to full effectiveness during this kind of ‘extended break from racing’, so that you can 'take advantage' of this in some kind of fashion? Training which 'breaks you down' before it 'builds you up' for instance? Much needed family time? I guess they’re all welcome to team camps etc. - for the morale boost as much as for the training (I guess they’re all pretty experienced now wrt charting their own training regimes). While the ‘UPS 3’ are off the roster, will your roster be limited to 27, or is there room for 6-month stagiaires (if this is ever done). Will the ’UPS 3’ be paid normally during their bans? Are they still keeping up with their 'doping-confession' daily email support group?

Any plans to recruit Jullich/White as DSs? (I know you found it hard to replace Whitey). Any idea why Julich didn’t testify to USADA? I guess he must have been worried about losing his job with sky due to ‘zero-tolerance‘ (similarly possibly for Whitey with CA/OGE). I still don’t understand why Kevin hasn’t testified - anything to do with Mellow Johnny’s being associated with LA? Know of any of the other 19 unidentified ‘riders’ who’re planning to come forward at some point (you don’t have to give their names)? Seems you’re still on good terms with Whitey, but not unfortunately Lim - how did Whitey react when you sacked him, as I guess he loved his job. I’m sure you gave him good refs for his job-hunt. Any issues with DZ & CVdV still working privately with Lim?

Crazy that it seems to have been the UCI who put a spanner in the works re. ‘no-bans’ in the generalized amnesty proposal - but they do a lot of crazy s**t it seems. Maybe since they don’t seem to like the amnesty idea? Omerta speaking?

You had no ban - statute of limitations? Was a personal ban something you were concerned about? I guess you’ve got plenty of competent people who could have run the show for a few months in your absence whilst you got on with your MBA etc.

Will you voluntarily ‘asterix’ your palmares semi-officially sometime? Do any of your riders/friends have plans to do the same? Seems like the best solution in the absence of any reasonable way to ‘reallocate’ the results.

Best Wishes ,

- Argyle_Fan

Last edited by Argyle_Fan; 11-04-12 at 04:24.
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  #1922  
Old 11-04-12, 04:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autologous View Post
You rate yourself too highly, unless by "drilling hard" you're referring to masturbatory technique. JV already has you pegged :
Really.

No comment from you about JV's claim that a 15W saving via a skinsuit saves a rider in a 6 hour race [cough] 1000 calories?

Let's start with something nice and simple like that.

Please explain to everyone how zero knowledge on my part leads me to show that 15W for 6 hours is ~324cal for someone with 25% efficiency, or 351 for someone with 22% efficiency. Assuming the race averaged 48km/hr. JV mentioned 7 hours for the race, but it was won in 6:09 (258km).

Then perhaps you can explain how JV can even make the claim, when it requires the condition of a rider riding at 48km/hr, but the race in question averaged 43km/hr, and the rider in question only rode solo for 22 minutes of the race, at an average of 40km/hr.

Go.

Or is it true because JV is a maigcal unicorn and everything he says is true?
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Last edited by Dear Wiggo; 11-04-12 at 04:26.
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  #1923  
Old 11-04-12, 05:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
My opinion? Ricco is a good example. A guy who kept at it, hard core, long after most others had called a truce. That's just my opinion and its very subjective.
hypothetically, what if say a rider named Cark Mavendish, is also hardcore, but now, like Armstrong, is like AGI and Goldmans, ie too big to fail.

Ricco was small enuff small fry smallfish. You can do him at Red Lobster for a specials night, $4 with fries me. Ricco small fish fast fried.
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  #1924  
Old 11-04-12, 05:26
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JV1073

put my apology on record. And I think DearWiggo is in a similar vain. I am not apologising for someone, and DW has his own motive, but I think they may be similar to mine.

we (can I use a collective we) hold you to a higher standard because everyone remembers the high ambitions of the nascent Chipotle'ers. But then we saw them riding too hot. We ordered the option, of tempered heat. Like we were promised.

So we hold you to a higher standard.

And it is a fine line. Because why should Farrar ride with one hand behind his back against a rider, Cark Mavendish. A rider who hangs on over cat 1 climbs which would have made him lose the gruppetto, and then be dq'ed for missing the time cut. Not even talking hc climbs. He wins 6 stages, or 7, and green. Why should Tyler compete with his hands tied behind his back, on stages where some guy hangs on, say a cat 2 col, catches up on the descent, then wins a sprint for the first place, and Tyler is second on the stage.

Why does Tyler miss out in this hypothetical. And why would you enforce a system which deprives him of competing on equal terms.

I see it as a situation, which your aspirations, cannot fulfil. Which I am sorry for.
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  #1925  
Old 11-04-12, 06:55
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thanx ferminal and ME. i finally found some time to read the whole article.

atm, i don't feel it changed any of the conclusions towards the end of my post above.

ps.

some made comments - here and in the parallel jv thread - about the various hboc doping products (hemassist etc) as representing the edge of blood doping in the early 2000s. i personally don't feel that to be the case. the reasons are probably off topic here. i'll be happy to engage in the discussion if there is the right place...
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  #1926  
Old 11-04-12, 14:09
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hrotha hrotha is offline
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Hey JV,
Quote:
“Did it feel massive? Did you feel happy?”
“I felt okay. I wasn’t ecstatic.”
“That doesn’t make sense?”
“Well, for sure, it was the best form of my life as a bike rider, but I wasn’t . . . I was just sort of . . . I will leave it at this; I wasn’t overly pleased with that victory. It was interesting to me. It answered a lot of questions. But it wasn’t the most ecstatic moment of my life by any means.”
Given that you had been doping for a while already by the time you won on Mont Ventoux, could this mean you were given A-class treatment for the Dauphiné to act as a sort of tester for the team leaders' program for the Tour? And that therefore the questions it answered was, essentially, "What could I accomplish on an A-class program"?

You see, there's a bit of a legend around Dauphiné being the traditional testing grounds, where a team's dop domestiques would step up on the program to see how it was holding up, and I'd like to know if that was a real thing that happened.
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  #1927  
Old 11-04-12, 14:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
My opinion? Ricco is a good example. A guy who kept at it, hard core, long after most others had called a truce. That's just my opinion and its very subjective.
"most others had called a truce"? what does that mean? stopped doping full throttle and shifted to bandwidth doping? stopped doping period? And who are "most others"? Certainly the Spanish armada didn't hear about the truce, did they? Just the anglo-phone teams or what?
Care to give an objective opinion? Pretty easy singling out Ricco.

Last edited by sniper; 11-04-12 at 15:00.
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  #1928  
Old 11-04-12, 15:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
"most others had called a truce"? what does that mean? stopped doping full throttle and shifted to bandwidth doping? stopped doping period? And who are "most others"? Certainly the Spanish armada didn't hear about the truce, did they? Just the anglo-phone teams or what?
Care to give an objective opinion? Pretty easy singling out Ricco.
What info does JV have to know others called a truce?
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  #1929  
Old 11-04-12, 15:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
What info does JV have to know others called a truce?
wouldn't Rabobank have preferred to stay in the business if any such truce did really exist? Rather, I recall Rabobank stepped out because they don't believe cycling is capable of cleaning itself up. They should've called JV for a second opinion!
Or was Rabo not part of the truce?

Last edited by sniper; 11-04-12 at 16:00.
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  #1930  
Old 11-04-12, 15:56
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hrotha hrotha is offline
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I think that, as you don't trust JV, you're choosing to call BS on everything he says, regardless of how reasonable it is. I'd say it's clear that, in 2008, with the introduction of the passport, there were some folks partying like it was 2007, and they stood out (Riccò, Piepoli, Sella & friends, Schumacher, etc).
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