Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 11-02-12, 14:17
WinterRider WinterRider is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
martinvickers says Frenchies stopped doping because of the threat of jail, and he wants to see more of it:



Steve Houanard just got caught doping for EPO.
Jeanie Longo's husband is on the ropes for ordering a great whack of EPO.
Europecar are being investigated.
Micahel Delage was excluded from Nationals for elevated cortisol levels.

Is that enough examples that the jail threat in France is not preventing French people from doping?

Let me know - I can keep going. Or you can just check out dopeology.org for more yourself.
This seems to be a recent resurgence in French Cycling that coincides with this. As for Jeannie Longo, I would surmise that women's cycling never got much attention and they assumed they could fly under the radar. This was true until Joe Papp turned them in.

I think Vickers' assessment is correct. The threat, combined with the memory of the Festina affair played a major part in reducing doping in the French Pros for many years.

If all countries wound enact criminal legislation, and pursue cases, I think it would have an affect on the level of doping in the peloton as a whole.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 11-02-12, 14:46
Alpe d'Huez's Avatar
Alpe d'Huez Alpe d'Huez is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New England
Posts: 7,326
Default

I'll believe Hein and Pat's downfall when I see it. Yes, it's possible, but unlikely anytime soon.

What's most likely to happen is that the commission will either get bribed, white washed, or be formed of insiders; a Vrijman Report. Or everything will get pushed back to 2014-2016, with various delays in investigations, funding, etc. and Hein and Pat will retire comfortably. Pigs at the trough.

While I appreciate Fahey being on the right side of the Armstrong decision, I too believe Pound was a better leader. The only problem with Pound was that at times he'd open his mouth and say something caustic and uncalled for. But as far as knowing what was going on, and making the right decisions to fight doping, the man had a serious backbone. One of the few during very trying times.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 11-02-12, 15:03
Benotti69's Avatar
Benotti69 Benotti69 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
I'll believe Hein and Pat's downfall when I see it. Yes, it's possible, but unlikely anytime soon.

What's most likely to happen is that the commission will either get bribed, white washed, or be formed of insiders; a Vrijman Report. Or everything will get pushed back to 2014-2016, with various delays in investigations, funding, etc. and Hein and Pat will retire comfortably. Pigs at the trough.

While I appreciate Fahey being on the right side of the Armstrong decision, I too believe Pound was a better leader. The only problem with Pound was that at times he'd open his mouth and say something caustic and uncalled for. But as far as knowing what was going on, and making the right decisions to fight doping, the man had a serious backbone. One of the few during very trying times.
If the Swiss police do their job properly than it is only a matter of time that Verbruggen and McQuaid are charged and will either be sacked or resign.
__________________
"ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 11-02-12, 15:08
DirtyWorks's Avatar
DirtyWorks DirtyWorks is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,374
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stainlessguy1 View Post
I believe , if we use a simple wheel as the base model and consider the rider the hub of the wheel , that would be a great starting point . The Rider is what it is all about , without the Rider , nothing else really matters.
To extend your analogy, the concept that the rider is at the center of the issue is exactly how the UCI enables doping. The rider is almost powerless. Because of oxygen vector doping, the clean riders have little chance. The culture just returns clean riders to their region and find personalities okay with doping. Floyd Landis being the perfect example. He didn't have a problem doping. He had a problem getting kicked out of the economy!

As the system works now, the UCI/IOC sports federations pick the cases to open. Which works out very well for them, doesn't it? What better way can you imagine to get the various actors in the Olympic athlete economy to bow to your wishes?

At mimimum, anything less than WADA being able to open cases allows doping among other cheating methods to flourish. This is the simplest way forward until WADA's leadership is replaced the way Anne Gripper was replaced at the UCI.

All this talk of the cycling-related media applying pressure is a form of greenwashing. Yes, they want the fundamental aspects of the cycling game to be sound, so sports results are believable. But that's different than an honest, transparent sport.
__________________
There goes the neighborhood!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZxPB8xfM6c

Last edited by DirtyWorks; 11-02-12 at 15:20.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 11-02-12, 15:15
RichWalk's Avatar
RichWalk RichWalk is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Birmingham, England
Posts: 208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post
To extend your analogy, the concept that the rider is at the center of the issue is exactly how the UCI enables doping.

As the system works now, the UCI/IOC sports federations pick the cases to open. Which works out very well for them, doesn't it? What better way can you imagine to get the various actors in the Olympic athlete economy to bow to your wishes?

At mimimum, anything less than WADA being able to open cases allows doping among other cheating methods to flourish. This is the simplest way forward until WADA's leadership is replaced the way Anne Gripper was replaced at the UCI.
Even then you are only approaching a best fit scenario, unless a body like WADA is comprised of benevolent scientists and well meaning advocates even they risk being swayed at a number of levels fom the powerful individual right through to a multi billion Pound Govt backed venture such as the Olympics.
__________________
https://twitter.com/RichWalk66
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 11-02-12, 15:47
thirteen's Avatar
thirteen thirteen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,316
Default

WADA confirms it will not appeal USADA reasoned decision in Lance Armstrong case
Quote:
“Following the UCI Management Committee’s announcement last week, WADA now awaits with considerable interest the details of the independent inquiry that is proposed, including its composition and terms of reference.

“It is important that there now be genuine independence and a complete examination of the scenario, with a panel that has full powers of inquiry and access to all required evidence and information.

“Only with the necessary independence and terms of reference will the inquiry be able to properly address the systemic culture of doping that was allowed to develop in cycling during this time.

“WADA has had no communication from the UCI with regards to their upcoming inquiry, nor indeed the Armstrong reasoned decision, nor the UCI Management decisions. WADA will want to contribute to the inquiry if it is established and resourced beyond reproach.
eta: good article at velonation
__________________
______________
sempre con noi

Last edited by thirteen; 11-02-12 at 15:52.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 11-02-12, 20:08
cathulu cathulu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 123
Default

Mountainrman aka gree can finally stfu
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 11-04-12, 02:28
Tinman's Avatar
Tinman Tinman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,012
Default

Another headache for UCI. They have to rule on Vinokourov's bribe to Kolobnev...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13...stigation.aspx
__________________
Verbruggen: 'J'ai les moyens de vous faire un coureur positif quand je veux...'
'I have the means to make you a rider positive when I want to'
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 11-04-12, 03:25
PosterBill PosterBill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
Another headache for UCI. They have to rule on Vinokourov's bribe to Kolobnev...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13...stigation.aspx
At least he got rained down upon by boos ....that crowd at Liege was on to something eh?
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 11-04-12, 09:10
Mrs John Murphy's Avatar
Mrs John Murphy Mrs John Murphy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Stamping on Cadel's dog
Posts: 2,167
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
Another headache for UCI. They have to rule on Vinokourov's bribe to Kolobnev...

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13...stigation.aspx
I suspect that this is one where they will be happy to throw the book at Vino and at Kolobnev as well.

Remember the look on Pat's face when Vino won at the Olympics?

Vino is a pantomine villain. He is easy to vilify, much like Ricco.
__________________
Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.