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  #51  
Old 11-04-12, 09:42
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Mrs John Murphy Mrs John Murphy is offline
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So we can add, selective use of evidence to, fake outage, false accusations, comparing a doper to a rape victim.

I've added the emphasis as you seem to think that grooming only applies to sexual abuse which it doesn't.

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Child grooming refers to actions deliberately undertaken with the aim of befriending and establishing an emotional connection with a child, to lower the child's inhibitions in preparation for sexual activity with the child, or exploitation (such as child labour—see trafficking of children).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_grooming

You would have to be pretty insane to think that:

i) Anyone in this thread is accusing Contador of being a rapist/child molester
ii) Anyone is saying that doping is equivalent to rape.

However, what is being said is that Contador's history of doping and involvement with doping (beyond his ban) renders him unsuitable to be involved in youth cycling. That just as no one in their right mind would let their children train with a rapist, murderer, fraudster, armed robber, no one in their right mind ought to let their children be involved in a team sponsored by an unrepentant doper. (Hence the analogy). The reasons for this are clear because of the vulnerability of children.

If an adult such as Dave Zabriskie found it impossible to resist the pressure to dope, what hope is there for a child to resist the pressure to dope if they are being told to do so by their 'hero'. At a time when cycling is looking to 'move on' and looking towards the next generation, there is and there should be, concern about the involvement of unrepentant, hardcore dopers in youth cycling. This is precisely the point in time at which, clean riders can be subverted into dirty riders dependent upon drugs as a physical and emotional crutch when they reach the pro-peloton.

Oh yes - A child is defined as anyone under the age of 18 as per the 1989 UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. In response to whoever it was who was saying that a 17-18 year old can make their own decisions.
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...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

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Last edited by Mrs John Murphy; 11-04-12 at 09:56.
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  #52  
Old 11-04-12, 09:43
del1962 del1962 is offline
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I dont think that the anologies given by some when decrying Contador's involvement in setting up a team are good ones, however I think it is a bad thing for someone like Contador with his failed test, unrepentant doping and link to fuentes to be involved in something like this, I think Contador(along with Valverde) is the worse of the top proffesional cyclist amongst the current peleton.
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  #53  
Old 11-04-12, 09:53
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
So we can add, selective use of evidence to, fake outage, false accusations, comparing a doper to a rape victim.

I've added the emphasis as you seem to think that grooming only applies to sexual abuse which it doesn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_grooming

You would have to be pretty insane to think that:

i) Anyone in this thread is accusing Contador of being a rapist/child molester
ii) Anyone is saying that doping is equivalent to rape.

However, what is being said is that Contador's history of doping and involvement with doping (beyond his ban) renders him unsuitable to be involved in youth cycling. That just as no one in their right mind would let their children train with a rapist, murderer, fraudster, armed robber, no one in their right mind ought to let their children be involved in a team sponsored by an unrepentant doper. (Hence the analogy).

Or yes - A child is defined as anyone under the age of 18 as per the 1989 UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. In response to whoever it was who was saying that a 17-18 year old can make their own decisions.
Okay let's stop discussing this now, I don't know if you're on twitter but if you are please get in touch with the boys and save them from the great harm this evil ******* named Alberto Contador will bring upon them.

https://twitter.com/Pazosfernandez
https://twitter.com/Fperezsolorzano
https://twitter.com/SergioFdez115
https://twitter.com/acmorata
https://twitter.com/OscarLinaress
https://twitter.com/Diego_9604
https://twitter.com/alcaide68
https://twitter.com/victor9523
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Last edited by LaFlorecita; 11-04-12 at 10:02.
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  #54  
Old 11-04-12, 10:22
Cloxxki Cloxxki is offline
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Originally Posted by LaFlorecita View Post
Okay let's stop discussing this now, I don't know if you're on twitter but if you are please get in touch with the boys and save them from the great harm this evil ******* named Alberto Contador will bring upon them.

https://twitter.com/Pazosfernandez
https://twitter.com/Fperezsolorzano
https://twitter.com/SergioFdez115
https://twitter.com/acmorata
https://twitter.com/OscarLinaress
https://twitter.com/Diego_9604
https://twitter.com/alcaide68
https://twitter.com/victor9523
You create a new ethical/psychological issue immediately. Is it wise to unleash hell from the anti-doping community just as they are about to be groomed by their national hero, whom they likely think to be a global hero?
Contador is the mouth that feeds them, he will be forced to pressure them even harder, and get the doping into their system even quicker. "Too late kid, you're a doper for life now. Make the best of it, I did. You may dedide for yourself what's right or wrong, but I'm telling you it's alright".

So, let these dopers to be go viral within the AD community, or put our pressure elsewhere? If only the spanish cycling fed were into AD at all... they could haste to get some blood profiles on them, and put them under a dense testing program. Not at their targeted race, but during their training leading up to it. This is actually where LeMond's method might work out, power testing. If only to help focus even harder on suspect individuals. An AD agency should support these kids in staying clean, by making it impossible to dope. Perhaps doping bans need to be harsher for U23's? Forces them to get an education, not gamble on mountains of gold they earn from just pedaling, supposedly to not have to work after 30. And yeah, lower budgets and prizes for U23 teams.
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  #55  
Old 11-04-12, 11:03
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Red Rick Red Rick is offline
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Contador won't run the team himself, he sponsors it. Do you actually think that he's gonna tell these kids to drug themselves. That would mean that only one of these kids would have to point a finger to Contador for Contador's career to be over and seriously don't think Contador is that stupid.

The DS might tell them to dope, but i'm inclined to think that these kids should have at least half a brain themselves and make the choice for themselves, wether they want to dope or not. Some of them might be so ambitious they would start doping wether it's offered by the team or not.

Spanish teams are quitting everywhere, has the thought crossed your mind that Contador maybe just wants to give the kids a chance to make it as a pro?
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  #56  
Old 11-04-12, 12:13
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It is ironic, on the one hand we have people questioning whether Riis, Hog, Saiz, Vino, Ekimov etc should be involved in pro-racing because of their doping histories. And yet, because sponsors are withdrawing, and it is 'giving kids a chance' somehow, we should welcome Contador's involvement. That because it is 'charity' we should set aside any concerns over the appropriateness of Contador sponsoring a team.

Just because investment is declining in youth cycling does not mean you should welcome investment from an unrepentant doper.

Cancer shield is replaced by youth cycling shield.

Given that some Contador fans try to apologise and defend everything he does, what chance would a rider have if he did report that Contador was encouraging doping within the team? I am pretty sure that they would not be believed.

The unquestioning acceptance of everything Contador says and does, and indeed that some people, like a cud-chewing bovines staring vacantly out into the middle distance, seem to revel in not questioning anything that he does only serves to create an even more potentially dangerous and exploitable environment.
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Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
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  #57  
Old 11-04-12, 12:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
...

Cancer shield is replaced by youth cycling shield.
...
+1
well said
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  #58  
Old 11-04-12, 14:01
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is offline
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Argh on the ignore list you go
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  #59  
Old 11-04-12, 14:12
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Mrs John Murphy Mrs John Murphy is offline
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Originally Posted by LaFlorecita View Post
Argh on the ignore list you go
BOOYAH! Excellent.
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Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
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  #60  
Old 11-04-12, 14:52
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No_Balls No_Balls is online now
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Quote:
Cancer shield is replaced by youth cycling shield
Quote:
+1
well said
Pleased to see my intial thoughts are appreciated.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpos...4&postcount=14

But then it all got inflammatory and went into a outbursts of emotional characters. So we had to scroll down a very long way before finding something to build on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rick View Post
Contador won't run the team himself, he sponsors it. Do you actually think that he's gonna tell these kids to drug themselves. That would mean that only one of these kids would have to point a finger to Contador for Contador's career to be over and seriously don't think Contador is that stupid.
As i said early it would be wise checking up which role Contador will have in the team: money? symbolic? training advice (not speaking juice here)? Eating advice (not speaking steak here)? Or just lending his name to the academy as with many of these academies. The newly risen idea of him as some sorts of witch doctor creating PEDs and distributing them to youngsters is naive and mere speculation for now, since we dont have that much details about the project.

While i dont like this at all coming out in this period of time: Martí has yet to speak and it could be considered a stroke of genius setting up a youth academy with your name on in an effort of making yourself untouchable (as Armstrong did), i´d for once hope AC has learned something in this last couple of months. He might not speak out right now but regretting towards himself and works towards a better and cleaner cycling.

Wheter you like it or not. He is a heavy piece in cycling and his words and, above all, actions is of great value. Hopefully, he does the right things.
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People who don't understand cycling must think Contador is a pretty violent person, when all they hear is Contador ATTACKS, ATTACKS ,ATTACKS

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Last edited by No_Balls; 11-04-12 at 14:57.
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