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  #1931  
Old 11-04-12, 16:01
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Benotti69 Benotti69 is offline
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Too many times pro cycling has declared itself to be clean and lied.

There are definitely less amounts of PEDS being consumed but to declare it clean with the same protagonists controlling it and the teams full of the same enablers and doctors when it was so dirty is asking us to believe night is day.

Edit: I am thinking of a Nico Roche radio interview when he accused Kimmage and Walsh of having a vendetta and when asked what did he mean he quickly retracted it, but said they appeared bitter.

Nico Roche is part of bike pure, now why on earth would he consider the 2 journalists over the last 20 years who have consistently called for a cleaner sport of cycling be accused of having a vendetta?

This word is to me peloton speak to describe the atitude of Walsh and Kimmage. The sport is still a closed rank and those who flow against it are bitter, jealous and have a vendetta. That is the modern pro cyclists feeling about the Walsh's, Kimmage's, Bassons, Ballesters and others who so called spat in the soup!

Now N Roche is on the bike pure website, why? PR, it appears that they will do anything to appear what they are not.

I get this feeling when I read JV and Millar or Sky and Brailsford 'speak'. They are trying to cast shields over themselves to deflect the reality that the only change has been in the amounts being used, which can be seen by some as a good thing and might be comparable to cycling before epo became the dope fo choice but for me it is not enough. To cross the line to dope whether with 1 pill or 100 is still doping.

This is only my opinion and I have no evidence but what I think is based on what is in the public arena, on forums, by the PR speak of teams, by the doctors still working in the sport, by the ridiculous statments issued by top riders, by the silence of the majority of riders, by the silence of nearly all the team onwers and DS, by the pictures broadcast of unbelievable performances, by the performance of ex dopers in this years Vuelta and on and on and on...
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Last edited by Benotti69; 11-04-12 at 16:20.
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  #1932  
Old 11-04-12, 16:03
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hrotha hrotha is offline
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I agree but I don't see what that has to do with anything. I think JV's "truce" is qualified by the description ofRiccò's approach as "hard core". I don't believe JV is saying cycling suddenly got clean in 2008.
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  #1933  
Old 11-04-12, 16:07
sniper sniper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
I think that, as you don't trust JV, you're choosing to call BS on everything he says, regardless of how reasonable it is. I'd say it's clear that, in 2008, with the introduction of the passport, there were some folks partying like it was 2007, and they stood out (Riccò, Piepoli, Sella & friends, Schumacher, etc).
that Ricco was exaggerating, very well. but what the hell does it mean that "most others" called for a "truce"? It sounds like cheap PR if it isn't specified any further. You know as well as I do that nobody called for a truce. Look at the Spanish riders apologizing for Armstrong and dominating the Vuelta. Were the Spanish not part of the truce? Look at Rabo not believing in clean cycling. Did Rabo not know about the truce? Look at Vino at the Olympics. Look at Sky. Also, Bruyneel and Riis were certainly still in the game when JV's alleged truce was called for. Did they welcome the truce? Did they sabotage it?

Last edited by sniper; 11-04-12 at 16:10.
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  #1934  
Old 11-04-12, 16:09
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You're being way too literal about "truce" IMO.
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  #1935  
Old 11-04-12, 16:18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
You're being way too literal about "truce" IMO.
JV decided to throw in the term without defining it. Sounds like cheap PR if it isn't specified any further. Does JV really believe "most others" decided to ride clean? or was it about doping marginally? Why is he singling out Ricco, not e.g. Contador? And whatabout Armstrong 2009/10? He was still doped to the gills. Was he beaten by clean riders?
How many of the top 10 of 2009 TDF were clean in JV's opinion?

Last edited by sniper; 11-04-12 at 16:21.
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  #1936  
Old 11-04-12, 16:19
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Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
Dekker was tested extensively because his doping was much more recent and extreme than any other member of my team. I wanted to know if his talent was real. I think it is, but the jury is still out.
More extreme? You mean he was more successful with it? What's the difference with Vande Velde, for instance?
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  #1937  
Old 11-04-12, 16:24
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also, I haven't heard JV waste a single word on Contador other than "I don't know". The plasticizers in Contador's sample leave little room for doubt: Contador was still blooddoping in 2010. Yet JV ignores this and prefers to spout PR about clean cycling.
He's entitled to do so, but the Clinic IMO is not the right place for deliberatly sticking one's head in the sand.

Last edited by sniper; 11-04-12 at 16:26.
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  #1938  
Old 11-04-12, 18:25
JV1973 JV1973 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
also, I haven't heard JV waste a single word on Contador other than "I don't know". The plasticizers in Contador's sample leave little room for doubt: Contador was still blooddoping in 2010. Yet JV ignores this and prefers to spout PR about clean cycling.
He's entitled to do so, but the Clinic IMO is not the right place for deliberatly sticking one's head in the sand.
That's a willfully wrong and untruthful characterization. I come here to spar/chat with people who are curious, not to deal with those that have already made up their minds or those that get some sort of odd self gratification over being overly critical.
You are a waste of time. Sorry, that's not personal, just factual. I don't understand why you follow cycling at all? But apparently you're totally obsessed with it. Makes no sense to me.
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  #1939  
Old 11-04-12, 18:29
JV1973 JV1973 is offline
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Originally Posted by theyoungest View Post
More extreme? You mean he was more successful with it? What's the difference with Vande Velde, for instance?
Thomas was using rather sophisticated blood doping up until 2008. It was materially changing his performances in a large way. VDV was not. He used lower doses with lower frequency and stopped earlier. And never blood doped. So, while ethically, it's the same, from a +/- standpoint on performance he gained less than Dekker. Therefor, I never doubted VDV's ability to compete clean. Thomas was more in doubt, for me. I could be wrong. That's why we tested him more.

I do have high hopes for TD's 2013 season. We'll see...

JV
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  #1940  
Old 11-04-12, 18:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
Thomas was using rather sophisticated blood doping up until 2008. It was materially changing his performances in a large way. VDV was not. He used lower doses with lower frequency and stopped earlier. And never blood doped. So, while ethically, it's the same, from a +/- standpoint on performance he gained less than Dekker. Therefor, I never doubted VDV's ability to compete clean. Thomas was more in doubt, for me. I could be wrong. That's why we tested him more.

I do have high hopes for TD's 2013 season. We'll see...

JV
What were your other riders using in 2008 or before you signed them?
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