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  #61  
Old 11-04-12, 15:37
Cloxxki Cloxxki is offline
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Cancer shield, meet kids shield.
Well said bro, you deserve to be ignored also.
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  #62  
Old 11-04-12, 15:42
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is offline
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Well said bro, you deserve to be ignored also.
Indeed .
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  #63  
Old 11-04-12, 15:43
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He might not speak out right now but regretting towards himself and works towards a better and cleaner cycling.
where are laid out vuelta blood values?! Without them, 'regretting' is out of question.

Last edited by airstream; 11-04-12 at 15:48.
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  #64  
Old 11-04-12, 18:24
Fidolix Fidolix is offline
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It is ironic, on the one hand we have people questioning whether Riis, Hog, Saiz, Vino, Ekimov etc should be involved in pro-racing because of their doping histories. And yet, because sponsors are withdrawing, and it is 'giving kids a chance' somehow, we should welcome Contador's involvement. That because it is 'charity' we should set aside any concerns over the appropriateness of Contador sponsoring a team.

Just because investment is declining in youth cycling does not mean you should welcome investment from an unrepentant doper.

Cancer shield is replaced by youth cycling shield.

Given that some Contador fans try to apologise and defend everything he does, what chance would a rider have if he did report that Contador was encouraging doping within the team? I am pretty sure that they would not be believed.

The unquestioning acceptance of everything Contador says and does, and indeed that some people, like a cud-chewing bovines staring vacantly out into the middle distance, seem to revel in not questioning anything that he does only serves to create an even more potentially dangerous and exploitable environment.
I have in the name of God never seen so many fortune tellers, prosecutors, judges and executioners in one place, performing their function as society's right advocates.
There is a continuous line which is repeated here, are you in favor or just have a more realistic approach to the material which has been examined, or you just have another opinion, so God be gracious upon your soul, for you shall burn in hell.

The problem is though, it's pretty obvious who's the donkeys throughout the discussion truly are.
Firstly, one must be both stupid and preconceived if they in honesty think anybody wants to dope themselves because they like it, and put their health, life's and careers at stick, and intend to convey this to children, to you I say, get a life, go out more, see some sunlight, check out the real world.

For most of the dopers they were part of a culture, a culture which had no sufficient scientific and medical means to stop it or the motivation and wish to do so.
The Omerta ruled, along with the LA terror regime. Who in gods name could fight against it, but it does not mean anyone would like or wish to continue down this alley now there is a chance for a cleaner sport.
Personally I think a guy like AC would love to race on clean conditions, why is obvious...heīs just better than anybody else atm.

Another thing, some of the clinics so-called experts sit here and praises Zabriskie for his openness and honesty he have shown, and it was the psychopath LA and his hard childhood who made him dope, which likely is the truth, but my problem is that he continued to dope after he came out of Armstrong's regime, and it was a choice he himself took.
Both he and Vande de Velde has said they never saw or received or witnessed organized doping at Riis team in their time there, the same said McGee, but anyway, these things are ignored by the clinic so-called experts for this match obviously not into their rather narrow world view or should say, at least for some of it members.
I think itīs healthy to have a reasonable negative attitude towards the past, and not take anything for granted, but keep it at level of reality and try stick to the facts as facts and not state personally opinions as hard evidence.

I my self can say I have had a great pleasure of following the case against Armstrong through the clinic, and itīs obvious it has many experts in a wide range of the society, but I must admit this thread and lots of itīs contents is way below standard and seems to be motivated on personally feelings and not on facts what so ever.
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  #65  
Old 11-05-12, 01:43
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TheEnoculator TheEnoculator is offline
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OK. The way I see it, the act itself is admirable. It's never a wrong thing to invest in the future of cycling.

HOWEVER, there is a difference in who's initiating such an act. If JV starts a junior team, I would have no problem trusting the integrity of this team, because JV has been extremely outspoken against doping, despite the fact that he's an admitted doper.

Contador is a convicted doper and he never admitted to anything. Kind of like Valverde to me. Contador seems like a nice enough fellow with a good heart (not all dopers are evil people). But when you develop a junior team with these kids just starting out, they need a good role model. Someone who will steer them towards the right direction in everything, from technique to training to even ethics.

I'm not sure if Contador is such a great role model in terms of ethics. I don't believe Contador is thinking, "I want to develop a new generation of cyclists who dope", and I don't think he will openly encourage these kids to dope, but if we want cycling to change, it has to start with these kids. Can Contador be that role model? It's hard to say.

Last edited by TheEnoculator; 11-05-12 at 01:51.
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  #66  
Old 11-05-12, 06:10
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No_Balls No_Balls is offline
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Edit. 10 char.
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People who don't understand cycling must think Contador is a pretty violent person, when all they hear is Contador ATTACKS, ATTACKS ,ATTACKS

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Last edited by No_Balls; 11-05-12 at 06:29.
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  #67  
Old 11-05-12, 07:28
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42x16ss 42x16ss is offline
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Originally Posted by Cloxxki View Post
Well said bro, you deserve to be ignored also.
Interesting, is it possible to ignore yourself?

Or are we being subtle here
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  #68  
Old 11-05-12, 07:35
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42x16ss 42x16ss is offline
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Originally Posted by TheEnoculator View Post
OK. The way I see it, the act itself is admirable. It's never a wrong thing to invest in the future of cycling.

HOWEVER, there is a difference in who's initiating such an act. If JV starts a junior team, I would have no problem trusting the integrity of this team, because JV has been extremely outspoken against doping, despite the fact that he's an admitted doper.

Contador is a convicted doper and he never admitted to anything. Kind of like Valverde to me. Contador seems like a nice enough fellow with a good heart (not all dopers are evil people). But when you develop a junior team with these kids just starting out, they need a good role model. Someone who will steer them towards the right direction in everything, from technique to training to even ethics.

I'm not sure if Contador is such a great role model in terms of ethics. I don't believe Contador is thinking, "I want to develop a new generation of cyclists who dope", and I don't think he will openly encourage these kids to dope, but if we want cycling to change, it has to start with these kids. Can Contador be that role model? It's hard to say.
Finally, someone who gets it in colours other than black and white!!

I'm a bit sceptical as well but you have to accept that Contador is a massive drawcard and will encourage juniors to take up the sport. I'll reserve my judgement until I know AC's role in the project and who the development staff will be and what their backgrounds are.

Don't forget that the Rabo conti squad was heavily anti-doping even while the PT team was encouraging/ignoring doping at the same time, so all may not be lost. Chances are the project will be scrutinised closely - and rightly so. Hopefully AC and those behind this project recognise this and act accordingly as the last thing the sport needs is a systemically doped development environment as it could be the final nail in the coffin.

Last edited by 42x16ss; 11-05-12 at 07:39.
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  #69  
Old 11-05-12, 08:20
Fidolix Fidolix is offline
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Originally Posted by TheEnoculator View Post
OK. The way I see it, the act itself is admirable. It's never a wrong thing to invest in the future of cycling.

HOWEVER, there is a difference in who's initiating such an act. If JV starts a junior team, I would have no problem trusting the integrity of this team, because JV has been extremely outspoken against doping, despite the fact that he's an admitted doper.

Contador is a convicted doper and he never admitted to anything. Kind of like Valverde to me. Contador seems like a nice enough fellow with a good heart (not all dopers are evil people). But when you develop a junior team with these kids just starting out, they need a good role model. Someone who will steer them towards the right direction in everything, from technique to training to even ethics.

I'm not sure if Contador is such a great role model in terms of ethics. I don't believe Contador is thinking, "I want to develop a new generation of cyclists who dope", and I don't think he will openly encourage these kids to dope, but if we want cycling to change, it has to start with these kids. Can Contador be that role model? It's hard to say.
I totally agree with your view points, and we should care and worry about our childrenīs well being at all times.

How ever, that people expects a "confession" from AC is not being realistic, not at this point in time at least.

Heīs an active cyclist with a doping violation in the bag, no way he can stand up and admit to anything, and with good reason, his career would end.
Everyone who admitted to doping are either retired or they struck a deal, and none of them were sanctioned in the past for other doping violations.
Offer AC a 6 months ban served doing the winter season and he might do it, but otherwise not.

So unless WADA makes some kind of amnesty for past dopers to come forward and lay the cards on the table without being sanctioned, itīs not gonna happen in the nearest future, and I must admit, with his past and latest violation I doubt he will as long heīs active.

A morale dispute? You can say that, but I would not like to be in his shoes and make these choices, but I think AC is well aware about the morale aspects about this project, that there wont be any problems.
AC does not strike me as a person who would dream of hurting children or encourage kids to do any wrong doing.
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  #70  
Old 11-05-12, 08:57
rata de sentina rata de sentina is offline
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Interesting, is it possible to ignore yourself?

Or are we being subtle here
Multiple personality disorder. Is it possible to be your own sockpuppet?
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