Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2041  
Old 11-05-12, 09:30
sniper sniper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Yes, the only person who he doesn't want involved in cycling is Ricco. Who is i) out of the sport and ii) other than Rasmussen, about the easiest target in cycling.

He is very reluctant to break omerta about currently active members of the peloton and that is frustrating for people, because what they see with their eyes when they see Dertie Cont, Piti and Froome riding up mountains as if on motorbikes does not square with what JV is telling us. By refusing to confirm what is 'obvious' to many, he appears to be 'maintaining omerta' and his comments about clean cycling appear to be blatantly unsustainable and untrue.

You can not claim it is hot sunny in the middle of a blizzard, which is what JV appears to be doing.

It is very easy to condemn Armstrong, Ricco, Rasmussen, JJ even the UCI.

However, the reality is that JV has to work with Riis, Dertie Cont, Movistar, Ekimov, Katusha, Sky, Froome etc so he's not going to call out anyone that he might 'need' at a later date.

Thus it appears that JV is playing a double or treble game. On the one hand preaching clean racing to the public, but at the same time, refusing to discuss or condemn the current peloton.

I have a simple question for JV - can you tell me in your opinion the 3 biggest obstacles or barriers to a clean peloton - ie the Spanish riders/authorities, inability to exclude dopers from the sport, entrenched attitudes towards doping among some teams/riders socialising junior riders, weak and incompetent cycling media, etc etc
of course, all very true. I see the conflict of interests and how he's prevented from talking about certain colleagues.

Fact remains that JV has ranted on here for no reason when confronted with difficult questions regarding his clean cycling theme. Fact also remains that he has made up his mind (viz. says he knows for sure) that Wiggo 2009 and Hesjedal 2012 were clean. He can't know, so that again smells like PR. Compare also David Millar, he's critical of UCI, yet he affirms that Wiggo is such a nice clean winner of the TdF.
Reply With Quote
  #2042  
Old 11-05-12, 09:32
18-Valve. (pithy) 18-Valve. (pithy) is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
Maybe he got to see the profiles of Cervélo riders during the merger, to help decide which ones he was going to take. But I think that Sastre signed with Geox before the merger was official, and he supposedly didn't know anything about it. I don't think his blood profile could be shared without his consent.

Maybe it's someone from Garmin? Hushovd?
The one rider this forum "constantly" refers to as clean and that didn't retire ages ago is Moncoutie.

JV is no fan of Hushovd AFAIK, but does this forum CONSTANTLY talk about how clean he is? It's been mentioned by some that he is clean, but it isn't talked about all that much.
__________________
"The likelihood of cheats succeeding in the London Olympics is somewhat remote." - David Howman, WADA Director General
Reply With Quote
  #2043  
Old 11-05-12, 09:34
GreggGermer GreggGermer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oudenaarde, Belgium
Posts: 64
Send a message via Skype™ to GreggGermer
Default

I was teammates with Ramunsas back in 2007 on a small Belgian-Lithuanian team. I ended up racing with him and most of the other Lithuanians at the bigger UCI races (the team ended up getting very cliquy after a month or so).

During my time I learned that he (and the other Lithuanians) trained hard and would do things like ride several races in a row as if they were in a stage race. He was always a friendly guy and I never once saw anything dodgy from him when we meet. People saw talent in him even before 2007 as he was part of the UCI development center performance program.

So more than 5 years for a talented rider to break into the World Tour is not some super jump in development in my opinion. Some of you only see a name you never knew pop up on a big team, others of us know the long and winding path that rider had to travel to the Pro Tour, it's never direct and is often filled with crappy teams that do little to allow talent to thrive to its full potential.

To me, he is a younger version of Jen Voight ... he can just push himself and suffer.
Reply With Quote
  #2044  
Old 11-05-12, 09:38
Dear Wiggo's Avatar
Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sunny Australia
Posts: 3,981
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggGermer View Post
I was teammates with Ramunsas back in 2007 on a small Belgian-Lithuanian team. I ended up racing with him and most of the other Lithuanians at the bigger UCI races (the team ended up getting very cliquy after a month or so).

During my time I learned that he (and the other Lithuanians) trained hard and would do things like ride several races in a row as if they were in a stage race. He was always a friendly guy and I never once saw anything dodgy from him when we meet. People saw talent in him even before 2007 as he was part of the UCI development center performance program.

So more than 5 years for a talented rider to break into the World Tour is not some super jump in development in my opinion. Some of you only see a name you never knew pop up on a big team, others of us know the long and winding path that rider had to travel to the Pro Tour, it's never direct and is often filled with crappy teams that do little to allow talent to thrive to its full potential.

To me, he is a younger version of Jen Voight ... he can just push himself and suffer.
Thanks for the input - much appreciated.

Were you aware of the doping accusations leveled at Ramunsas in the time period JV mentions (2010 I believe)? Do you have any idea of what their foundation was?
__________________
Letters to and from the pro peloton. twitter | blog
Reply With Quote
  #2045  
Old 11-05-12, 09:38
hrotha's Avatar
hrotha hrotha is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 11,718
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18-Valve. (pithy) View Post
The one rider this forum "constantly" refers to as clean and that didn't retire ages ago is Moncoutie.

JV is no fan of Hushovd AFAIK, but does this forum CONSTANTLY talk about how clean he is? It's been mentioned by some that he is clean, but it isn't talked about all that much.
I know, only the Norwegians and a few others single out Hushovd as most definitely clean. And those who defend Sastre do it only in relation to the singling out of Evans as a clean winner, not because they think Sastre was clean. The problem with Moncoutié is, when did JV have access to his blood profile?

Perhaps he intended to sign him at some point. Maybe so that Le Mevel wouldn't feel lonely. Dunno.
Reply With Quote
  #2046  
Old 11-05-12, 09:41
Benotti69's Avatar
Benotti69 Benotti69 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,944
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zam_Olyas View Post
I think it is Moncoutie because even Bennoti thinks he is clean


ish.


poco'ish.
__________________
"ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78
Reply With Quote
  #2047  
Old 11-05-12, 09:43
hrotha's Avatar
hrotha hrotha is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 11,718
Default

I'd like to point out we didn't bring up Navardauskas. JV did, as an example of someone who was so successful in the u23 ranks people assumed he had to be doped. As JV said, testing in u23 and Conti races is not as strict, and you often get BS performances, which is why, in the last decade or so, some pro teams resorted to only signing riders from their feeder teams, as a way to know they weren't buying adulterated goods.
Reply With Quote
  #2048  
Old 11-05-12, 09:48
Zam_Olyas's Avatar
Zam_Olyas Zam_Olyas is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Grosvenor Square. Novacaine.
Posts: 7,136
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
I know, only the Norwegians and a few others single out Hushovd as most definitely clean. And those who defend Sastre do it only in relation to the singling out of Evans as a clean winner, not because they think Sastre was clean. The problem with Moncoutiť is, when did JV have access to his blood profile?

Perhaps he intended to sign him at some point. Maybe so that Le Mevel wouldn't feel lonely. Dunno.
+ ten characters.
Reply With Quote
  #2049  
Old 11-05-12, 09:57
goggalor's Avatar
goggalor goggalor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,215
Default

Question: How can you say on your twitter bio you've dedicated your life to anti-doping when you doped for most of your professional career, even when riding for Crédit Agricole, a team that had many clean riders and apparently a bit of an anti-doping culture (and where you likely stole Tour spots from clean riders)?

Even Lance updated his twitter bio when USADA revealed his lies to the public and the UCI took away his wins.
__________________
"After studying my own case, I know the possibility of eating meat contaminated with Clenbuterol is very small but it is possible because farmers always want to boost animal growth." ~Alessandro ColÚ
Reply With Quote
  #2050  
Old 11-05-12, 10:04
Benotti69's Avatar
Benotti69 Benotti69 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,944
Default

Have any of these repentant dopers given back the money they won?
__________________
"ahaha, ever had the feeling you been cheated?" JL SF Jan'78
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.