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  #8031  
Old 11-06-12, 13:36
Grandillusion Grandillusion is offline
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Pick up any copy of any of the daily papers and there will be class discussion in there. Whether it is the Mail decrying working class benefit seekers, the Torygraph complaining about the squeezed middle class. Cameron getting upset everytime someone reprints the Bullingdon club photo. Accusations of middle class entitlement, of working class and upper class entitlement (which ever group you happen to dislike most).

Plenty of it in popular culture with celebrities such as Lily Allen pretending to be working class, Mockney as a term of abuse is class laden, Essex girl jokes & the variations on them are class jokes. My Fat Gypsy Wedding or Geordie Shore are class freakshows. Large chunks of terminology are class based 'Chelsea tractor' a 'Croydon facelift', a 'yummy mummy', 'chav', 'pikey' 'gadgey'

Class is very much an issue and almost all social debates are framed in class terms, although everyone denies that class is an issue which is the ironic thing about it all.
Everything you say above is true. However, to get back to the Wiggins class-roots issue - I don't think "mod" has ever escaped it's original working-class base. I'm no popular culture expert, but that's my perception having lived in Britain my whole life.
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  #8032  
Old 11-06-12, 13:46
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Mrs John Murphy Mrs John Murphy is offline
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Everything you say above is true. However, to get back to the Wiggins class-roots issue - I don't think "mod" has ever escaped it's original working-class base. I'm no popular culture expert, but that's my perception having lived in Britain my whole life.
There is some argument that it abandoned its working class roots when it went mainstream.

Very different to say the Teds. I've never met a middle class Ted, (that said I've never met a Ted under 60) whereas, I've met plenty of modern mods who were middle class playing working class. A good example is the Britpop movement where you had a whole load of middle class musicians de-emphasizing their middle classness (ie private education etc) and claiming to be working class and really into being a mod.
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...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal

Last edited by Mrs John Murphy; 11-06-12 at 13:50.
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  #8033  
Old 11-06-12, 13:53
Snafu352 Snafu352 is offline
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Comeplety agree. Add to this there's just been the London riots with disaffected youths in regards to class.
Twaddle.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17586334
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  #8034  
Old 11-06-12, 13:56
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Mrs John Murphy Mrs John Murphy is offline
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Or alternatively

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/tets..._b_932778.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ashes-out.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/comme...article627322/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotk...bal-class-war/

One example of one rioter does not disprove Hog's assertion.
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Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
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  #8035  
Old 11-06-12, 13:58
del1962 del1962 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Pick up any copy of any of the daily papers and there will be class discussion in there. Whether it is the Mail decrying working class benefit seekers, the Torygraph complaining about the squeezed middle class. Cameron getting upset everytime someone reprints the Bullingdon club photo. Accusations of middle class entitlement, of working class and upper class entitlement (which ever group you happen to dislike most).

Plenty of it in popular culture with celebrities such as Lily Allen pretending to be working class, Mockney as a term of abuse is class laden, Essex girl jokes & the variations on them are class jokes. My Fat Gypsy Wedding or Geordie Shore are class freakshows. Large chunks of terminology are class based 'Chelsea tractor' a 'Croydon facelift', a 'yummy mummy', 'chav', 'pikey' 'gadgey'

Class is very much an issue and almost all social debates are framed in class terms, although everyone denies that class is an issue which is the ironic thing about it all.
I see you failed to answer my question, I will ask it again do you live in Britain, have you ever lived in Britain?
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  #8036  
Old 11-06-12, 14:05
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Mrs John Murphy Mrs John Murphy is offline
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I see you failed to answer my question, I will ask it again do you live in Britain, have you ever lived in Britain?
And I see that you are avoiding the answer to your question and the discussion about class in contemporary UK society.

It always amuses me when people invoke the 'I come from here so I know more than you' just like the old 'I ride you don't' arguments.

However, oddly enough I do live in the UK, which kind of ****s up your superiority complex about you being British and knowing oh so much more about Britain than someone you assumed wasn't British.

Where is that sad trombone?
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Justcycling

...girls and ****ed 'em at school. All I know is that there were rumours he was into field hockey players

"the only thing worse than reading Cycling News is talking to them" Paul Kimmage

"The four most beautiful words in our common language: I told you so." Gore Vidal
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  #8037  
Old 11-06-12, 14:07
Grandillusion Grandillusion is offline
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
There is some argument that it abandoned its working class roots when it went mainstream.

Very different to say the Teds. I've never met a middle class Ted, (that said I've never met a Ted under 60) whereas, I've met plenty of modern mods who were middle class playing working class. A good example is the Britpop movement where you had a whole load of middle class musicians de-emphasizing their middle classness (ie private education etc) and claiming to be working class and really into being a mod.
It is quite a convoluted cultural history I'll agree, but personally I've not come across any middle-class hardcore mods (i.e. people who really take the movements tropes seriously as a way of living). It just feels a very working-class movement to me, always has. Could be wrong. Maybe he's a phony doping git. But I don't think so.
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  #8038  
Old 11-06-12, 14:13
Snafu352 Snafu352 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Or alternatively
People either succeed or they don't, they take opportunities or they don't, to pretend that "class" is the only or major element that matters is to deny and run from dealing with the issues.
Much as focusing a lot of ones bile and un-substantiated insinuations on one cycling team or individuals who seem to be trying to do the right thing does not help resolve cyclings issues.
Sure there are questions to be asked and hopefully answered but to make assertations as many do here with absolutely no shread of real evidence is as pathetic as hiding behind "class" as the reason for the 2011 riots.
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  #8039  
Old 11-06-12, 14:14
del1962 del1962 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
And I see that you are avoiding the answer to your question and the discussion about class in contemporary UK society.

It always amuses me when people invoke the 'I come from here so I know more than you' just like the old 'I ride you don't' arguments.

However, oddly enough I do live in the UK, which kind of ****s up your superiority complex about you being British and knowing oh so much more about Britain than someone you assumed wasn't British.

Where is that sad trombone?
Finally you answere my question , well done.

I wasn't assuming you weren't British other than you seemed to be putting more emphasis on class in the UK than I see from my experiences.

Of course you get privately educated wanting to hide it, but all evidence suggests that Brad did not go to a private school, even is first name some in the upper middle class would call chavish, but I doubt with his mod image Brad could be called a chav.

None of this relates to whether he has / has not be involved in doping, my feeling is he has not, but I have no proof of this and don't really want to consider flogging a dead horse.
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  #8040  
Old 11-06-12, 14:26
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Cycle Chic Cycle Chic is offline
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Default Working class wiggins

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In press conference following the eighth leg to Porrentruy, just over the border from France in Switzerland, he was asked about the doping cynics.

He summed it up in one word, "C***s.".......Honestly, they're just f**king w**kers,...The translator readied to deliver the message in French, but before she could, Wiggins picked up the microphone and sent the final message to the cynics: "C**ts!"

Wiggins shows his true class in this outburst - that sort of vitriole is working class. No middle class guy would ever come out with that.

Cycling is a working class sport.
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