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  #11  
Old 11-06-12, 16:40
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I think it is the 2001 Giro raid that people have attributed to Armstrong after the 2000 TDF.
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  #12  
Old 11-06-12, 17:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat View Post
assumption they were a threat is amiss.

Bassim in 2005 p'raps. Or was it 2004, the year Armstrong got in his head about his mom and cancer and telling him he would do all he could for him.

Basso was the only chance of beating Armstrong during the reign. But he had him cuckolded like a Princess Di or Fergie
I think 2005 and Ivan was very grateful for it.
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  #13  
Old 11-06-12, 17:14
Dazed and Confused Dazed and Confused is online now
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Tinfoil hats at the ready...

I've seen it alleged that Armstrong as well as being able to make his own positive tests vanish, was also able to make his rivals test positive.

That he was behind:

Mayo
Pantani
Contador
Landis
Hamilton

testing positive.

My question is this - if Armstrong was so powerful and so able to get his rivals popped then why on earth didn't he have Ullrich or Basso popped before 2006.

Ullrich, although a fat feckless cake lover, was always going to be more of a challenge to the Uniballer than Pantani, or Mayo.

It seems bizarre that he would spend his time making rivals who were not really a threat test hot, while not trying to get rivals who were a threat to test hot.
With some teams having called for significant changes at UCI after the USADA RD, are we going to see an entire team testing positive in TdF next year or just a key rider?

(and no, I don't think Armstrong was behind any other rider's positive test during his regime)
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  #14  
Old 11-06-12, 17:28
Cloxxki Cloxxki is offline
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Tyler's positive.
Back in 2006 they could not catch you on autologous too well yet. Huge scientific proof battle, and tyler might have won that.
Homologous, is something hard to deny once looking at the sample. Spike it, and there you go.
I believe more in spiking than in sabotage of BB's, although I won't rule that out either. It's too easy. Pass the old Fuentes assistent a sum of money to do it, and the next day the good doc has sincerely forgotten where the money in his pocket came from. Heck, you could send an "investigator" there, threatening to expose the whole place, UNLESS a favor is granted... Everyone in cycling knew about Madrid, but no-one acted against it.
Perhaps one time Tyler's body was rejecting the foreign blood, the other time it didn't. He may have been getting homologously diluted blood for a while. It takes one Fuentes trustee to mix things up.
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  #15  
Old 11-06-12, 17:49
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I guess the question is whether you think the Hamilton and Vino cases were blood bags getting mixed up, or conspiracy. I tend to view it as **** up rather than a conspiracy.

I think I struggle with the idea that Armstrong could ever have really had that much power, and that he could have orchestrated it. If it were true then it would suggest that the labs themselves are compromised.
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  #16  
Old 11-06-12, 17:57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazed and Confused View Post
With some teams having called for significant changes at UCI after the USADA RD, are we going to see an entire team testing positive in TdF next year or just a key rider?

(and no, I don't think Armstrong was behind any other rider's positive test during his regime)
Didn't you get the memo? Doping in cycling is under control with only 2% doping. The Bio Passport fixed it.

Unless ASO gets a conscience and brings back Patrice Clerc, it will be the most false negative Tour in a decade. The way the 2012 edition went, teams will be back on The Gear like it was 1995.
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Old 11-06-12, 18:01
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If Armstrong had so much clout with the UCI, then why did he go to such lengths to hide, and disappear from OOC controls, as well as be so careful for in season race controls. If he knew he would never be 'positive' based on UCI assurances, he did not need to worry about anything.

Some seem to subscribe to the theory that he had some 'immunity' deal. That does not jive with me based on the elaborate cover-ups and schemes in the USADA report.

He may have convinced Hein that he was on the 'inside' of some other riders doping, and convinced the UCI that some riders were cheating and deserved a positive control.

Maybe we find out more, as the layers get peeled back, about the payments to the UCI, covered up tests.....I have a feeling that there is a lot more evidence in USADA's hands that will point to pharma collusion, testing results, etc.
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  #18  
Old 11-06-12, 18:11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
Tinfoil hats at the ready...

I've seen it alleged that Armstrong as well as being able to make his own positive tests vanish, was also able to make his rivals test positive.

That he was behind:

Mayo
Pantani
Contador
Landis
Hamilton

testing positive.

My question is this - if Armstrong was so powerful and so able to get his rivals popped then why on earth didn't he have Ullrich or Basso popped before 2006.

Ullrich, although a fat feckless cake lover, was always going to be more of a challenge to the Uniballer than Pantani, or Mayo.

It seems bizarre that he would spend his time making rivals who were not really a threat test hot, while not trying to get rivals who were a threat to test hot.
Basso and Ullrich were relatively on good terms with Armstrong. There was little drama between them as far as I knew. Armstrong is on the record for simply not liking Mayo or Pantani. Of course with Landis, Hamilton and Contador his motivations were more obvious.
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  #19  
Old 11-06-12, 18:12
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Originally Posted by Mrs John Murphy View Post
I guess the question is whether you think the Hamilton and Vino cases were blood bags getting mixed up, or conspiracy. I tend to view it as **** up rather than a conspiracy.

I think I struggle with the idea that Armstrong could ever have really had that much power, and that he could have orchestrated it. If it were true then it would suggest that the labs themselves are compromised.
Look at it from a different angle. The UCI is the only one with the authority to open cases. If Hein and Pat have dozens of positives in any given month, what is to stop them from opening a case as they see fit? Think back on Pat and Hein's attempt to suppress the Contador positive.

I am going to repeat this until I'm banned for it, but there is still some really, really special relationship between Hein, Pat and Wonderboy. They are still defending Wonderboy!

Understand that testing is wildly variable depending on the lab regardless of WADA certification. The tests themselves require a great deal of skill to prepare and execute, much less interpret the results.
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Last edited by DirtyWorks; 11-06-12 at 18:16.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-12, 18:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post
Look at it from a different angle. The UCI is the only one with the authority to open cases. If Hein and Pat have dozens of positives in any given month, what is to stop them from opening a case as they see fit? Think back on Pat and Hein's attempt to suppress the Contador positive.

I am going to repeat this until I'm banned for it, but there is still some really, really special relationship between Hein, Pat and Wonderboy. They are still defending Wonderboy!

Understand that testing is wildly variable depending on the lab regardless of WADA certification. The tests themselves require a great deal of skill to prepare and execute, much less interpret the results.
The peloton is very dirty - so it stands to reason that lots of the peloton must be testing positive and the UCI must be sitting on a lot of positive tests.

Now, the problem I have is this - the UCI leaks like a sieve. And yet the only attempted suppressed case I can think of is Contador.

(BTW - How does Armstrong make Contador test positive while the UCI attempts to cover it up?)

It's not that I don't think it is possible, but given how bumbling and incompetent the UCI are, I find it hard to believe that they could keep it secret for so long.
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