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  #41  
Old 11-07-12, 15:20
Fidolix Fidolix is offline
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Originally Posted by Moose McKnuckles View Post
You guys are hilarious. Some of you actually think a guy like Tinkov is going to hand over millions and not have a major say in the team.

Seriously. Wake up.
You to mate.

Tinkov have several times pointed to Riis which russian riders he would like on the team and with a russian sponsor I think itīs fair to assume itīs a legit wish.

How many russians are on the team?
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  #42  
Old 11-07-12, 19:33
Martinello Martinello is offline
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to all of you citing hamilton as proof that tinkoff is dirty, it would be wise to step back and consider the source. hamilton is not an unimpeachable witness to anything doping related.

furthermore, my memory may be wrong, but i seem to remember the scuttlebutt around tinkoff's first hasty exit from top-ranked cycling was he was having doubts about the cleanliness of the blood of his riders.

that is not to say that saxo/tinkoff is definitely clean. but given their lack of points and riis' tenuous position in cycling, a systematic doping policy seems unlikely.
Oleg's first team roster was basically identical to the convicted dopers list. Sort of RockRacing v.1.0.

The guy is no stranger to doping and comes across to me as a results oriented businessman.
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  #43  
Old 11-07-12, 20:09
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pedaling squares pedaling squares is offline
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How dirty? Don't know what level they're at today. Riis has to be wary of a ban from his federation, and after all the troubles he had had securing sponsors he is probably terrified of a + test on his team. But there haven't been many + tests under Riis so far, and as long as success means winning I can see SB-T being at the trough with some other teams.

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Tinkoff is the sponsor. Not the manager.
An organization's culture is shaped largely by those at the top. Sounds like he was pretty active last time around.

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Originally Posted by Fidolix View Post
Totally and utterly worthless thread!
Tinkoff's comments to the riders about doing what they must, but don't get caught... Riis' use of PED's... Riis introducing Hamilton to Fuentes, encouraging the use of BB's... Hamilton doing PED's while riding for Riis, Basso blood doping while riding for Riis, Schleck sending $ to Fuentes while riding for Riis, Riis' current GT man fresh off a doing suspension... nope, there's nothing to this thread at all.
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  #44  
Old 11-07-12, 23:41
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gregod gregod is offline
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Originally Posted by Martinello View Post
Oleg's first team roster was basically identical to the convicted dopers list. Sort of RockRacing v.1.0.

The guy is no stranger to doping and comes across to me as a results oriented businessman.
perhaps you should read the second paragraph of what you quoted again.
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  #45  
Old 11-07-12, 23:46
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gregod gregod is offline
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Originally Posted by pedaling squares View Post
...


Tinkoff's comments to the riders about doing what they must, but don't get caught... .
and this is true base on what evidence? tyler hamilton's statement? hardly a credible source.

tinkov may be dirty, but compelling evidence, this is not.
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  #46  
Old 11-08-12, 02:22
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pedaling squares pedaling squares is offline
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Originally Posted by gregod View Post
and this is true base on what evidence? tyler hamilton's statement? hardly a credible source.

tinkov may be dirty, but compelling evidence, this is not.
Yeah, Hamilton probably only tells the truth about people and teams we don't like. He told the truth about Lance Armstrong, he told the truth about Johan Bruyneel, he told the truth about USPS, but he is full of crap when it comes to Riis and Tinkoff. Silly Tyler, he even forgot to put that crap in his book where he could have made a buck or two off it.

Or maybe many things that credible source told us were corroborated by other credible sources and helped formed grounds to make a reasoned decision. But he's probably lying about Tinkoff.
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  #47  
Old 11-08-12, 03:39
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gregod gregod is offline
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Originally Posted by pedaling squares View Post
Yeah, Hamilton probably only tells the truth about people and teams we don't like. He told the truth about Lance Armstrong, he told the truth about Johan Bruyneel, he told the truth about USPS, but he is full of crap when it comes to Riis and Tinkoff. Silly Tyler, he even forgot to put that crap in his book where he could have made a buck or two off it.

Or maybe many things that credible source told us were corroborated by other credible sources and helped formed grounds to make a reasoned decision. But he's probably lying about Tinkoff.
yeah? and how many times did he lie about all of that first? he finally got around to telling the truth when there was no other option and that was the only way he was going to make a buck out of cycling.

relying on him as a source is probably not the wisest decision one could make. tyler hamilton's relationship with the truth is about as tenuous as any politician's.

as i said above, tinkov may be dirty, but depending the twin that didn't vanish as a evidence is confirmation bias at best and foolish at worst.
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  #48  
Old 11-08-12, 06:36
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pedaling squares pedaling squares is offline
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yeah? and how many times did he lie about all of that first? he finally got around to telling the truth when there was no other option and that was the only way he was going to make a buck out of cycling.

relying on him as a source is probably not the wisest decision one could make. tyler hamilton's relationship with the truth is about as tenuous as any politician's.

as i said above, tinkov may be dirty, but depending the twin that didn't vanish as a evidence is confirmation bias at best and foolish at worst.
Probably less to do with making a buck and more about cooperating with the FDA.

Who, other than himself, did Hamilton lie about prior to admitting that he took PEDs? I don't recall him telling tales about others that were later proven false. I don't consider the book of Tyler to be gospel, but I sure don't doubt him either. The thread is asking for opinions about Saxo, and I take his comments about Tinkoff and Riis as two reasons among several to think that they may be dirty.
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  #49  
Old 11-09-12, 06:05
Fidolix Fidolix is offline
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Originally Posted by pedaling squares View Post
How dirty? Don't know what level they're at today. Riis has to be wary of a ban from his federation, and after all the troubles he had had securing sponsors he is probably terrified of a + test on his team. But there haven't been many + tests under Riis so far, and as long as success means winning I can see SB-T being at the trough with some other teams.



An organization's culture is shaped largely by those at the top. Sounds like he was pretty active last time around.



Tinkoff's comments to the riders about doing what they must, but don't get caught... Riis' use of PED's... Riis introducing Hamilton to Fuentes, encouraging the use of BB's... Hamilton doing PED's while riding for Riis, Basso blood doping while riding for Riis, Schleck sending $ to Fuentes while riding for Riis, Riis' current GT man fresh off a doing suspension... nope, there's nothing to this thread at all.
Try to look at things not just in black and white... my point is, calling it how dirty are Saxo... tack along rest of the pro tour team names, then it have its value, hanging out 1 team when they all have the same problem, is completely and utterly worthless!!
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  #50  
Old 11-09-12, 06:10
Fidolix Fidolix is offline
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Originally Posted by pedaling squares View Post
Yeah, Hamilton probably only tells the truth about people and teams we don't like. He told the truth about Lance Armstrong, he told the truth about Johan Bruyneel, he told the truth about USPS, but he is full of crap when it comes to Riis and Tinkoff. Silly Tyler, he even forgot to put that crap in his book where he could have made a buck or two off it.

Or maybe many things that credible source told us were corroborated by other credible sources and helped formed grounds to make a reasoned decision. But he's probably lying about Tinkoff.
I don´t see a thread about Omega, Lotto, Astana etc etc, and btw, Hamilton ****ed up couple of times in varies interviews already about who, where and when, so what he remembers could be questionable when it comes to dates and places, not saying it never happen course it did, but pls dont make him the messias, course hes not.

My other unborn twin... rings a bell?

Last edited by Fidolix; 11-09-12 at 06:13.
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