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  #1001  
Old 11-09-12, 00:25
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Originally Posted by hiero2 View Post
Two major problems here. One. The statement is not attributed. Who the hell is Routley? Where did the quote come from?

Second. Whoever Routley is, they are totally in error. " . . . because he has never done so . . ." is complete rubbish. That would mean the doper had doped, intentionally, as a child beginner in the world of competition. Nonsense. Bad logic based on a flawed premise.

I THINK that might have been your point. However, just can't tell from this snippet you give us. Routley is misguided, at best, regarding zero-tolerance. That this quote is unattributed is also, ahem, unfortunate.
Apologies. Given 95% of the last page of this thread was devoted to Will Routley, who had a very recent CN interview, I expected context to provide the clues. I am usually very regular with attributions. I will endeavour to keep up my good run.

I think he's specifically talking WT, and specifically riders who doped in the WT, after pointing out the fallacy that they doped then voluntarily stopped doping, even though their doped vs undoped performances remained largely unchanged as being the people who cannot show someone how to race in the WT undoped because they didn't actually do it. Whilst pedantically incorrect, I get what he is saying.
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  #1002  
Old 11-09-12, 00:46
JMBeaushrimp JMBeaushrimp is offline
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Re: Routley

Once again, The Clinic misses the forest for the trees...

You have a clean rider vilifying doping, and the first response is to see what teammates he was excluding with his 'most of' statement.

These are the guys to glorify!

Currently in the peloton, racing hard, and speaking out.

Maybe it would be better to bite our tongues and wait until the criminally-minded peloton pushes him out entirely... (although, since he's not a Euro, he won't have the legacy Bassons did).

Is that what you want?

Investigate your motives, that's all I ask. WHAT ARE YOUR MOTIVES?
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  #1003  
Old 11-09-12, 00:56
JMBeaushrimp JMBeaushrimp is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
Whilst pedantically incorrect, I get what he is saying.
Sweet Jeebus - It's not a philosophy thread. Nor is it a grammar lesson...
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  #1004  
Old 11-09-12, 01:02
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Originally Posted by JMBeaushrimp View Post
Sweet Jeebus - It's not a philosophy thread. Nor is it a grammar lesson...
Hey buddy step back a bit. Hiero disagreed with the quote I posted from Will.

I agree with the quote I posted from Will - and ONLY agreed with Hiero2's disagreement on the grounds that you be completely and utterly pedantic - where Hiero2 is correct - but BUT finish by saying I get what Will is saying. ie I understand. I expand on that understanding in a subsequent post.

To wit: get rid of the ex-dopers, they are in the wrong place. I have to be careful how hard I push that as I am already considered anti-JV (even though I am in fact anti-lying, and not anti-anyone).

For me, Will's post is the first time someone is saying something as an alleged non-doper that I actually believe.

And this includes McGee's various articles about the place.

Fully 100% agreement with you that Will should be lauded and applauded.
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Last edited by Dear Wiggo; 11-09-12 at 01:11.
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  #1005  
Old 11-09-12, 01:16
JMBeaushrimp JMBeaushrimp is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
Hey buddy step back a bit. Hiero disagreed with the quote I posted from Will.

I agree with the quote I posted from Will - and ONLY agreed with Hiero2's disagreement on the grounds that you be completely and utterly pedantic - where Hiero2 is correct - but BUT finish by saying I get what Will is saying. ie I understand. I expand on that understanding in a subsequent post.

To wit: get rid of the ex-dopers, they are in the wrong place. I have to be careful how hard I push that as I am already considered anti-JV (even though I am anti-lying, and not anti-anyone).

For me, Will's post is the first time someone is saying something as an alleged non-doper that I actually believe.

And this includes McGee's various articles about the place.

Fully 100% agreement with you that Will should be lauded and applauded.
Hey Wiggs;

Not picking on you, just noticing that there seems to be a self-destructive motif going on (not only here, but re Sky et al).

How about a deep breath, pause on the hating, and get some lauding going on.

What Routley said resonated with my own attitude about the dopers coming clean.

F*ck 'em. They knew what they were doing. They knew they were f*cking riders out of spots on teams. They knew what they were doing was illegal, and EVERYONE of them shut the f*ck up untill the reaper came knocking.

Interesting times ahead...
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  #1006  
Old 11-09-12, 01:25
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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Originally Posted by D-Queued View Post
It is always possible that I missed the point.

Which point? National C carded athlete (carded, but no dough)? Toughest sport he has ever competed in? His first World Championships... ? Which point?

There was an inferred criticism of a national program that allows dopers to take slots.

One of my points, or more than one, was related to this same national program. This is the point about a national program that cries poor me, we have no influence.

Yet, this is the same national program that Will is indirectly complaining about noting dopers took a slot (or two...).

If dopers took slots, they who is he talking about?

Forget about suspected dopers, how many known dopers have represented Canada? Any known dopers represent Canada after an AAF?

Is it possible the CCA looks the other way?



Ever see or hear of any 'unbelievable' performances?

Dave.
The point was he is clean and frustrated when those caught then say they "had no choice" because "everyone was doing it".

The rest was about his experiences as a clean athlete.
He mentioned Barry by name - but again he is telling HIS story.
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  #1007  
Old 11-09-12, 01:27
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Originally Posted by JMBeaushrimp View Post
Interesting times ahead...
A rumour going around that Ferrari of the Michele variety is going to cooperate with the authorities.

I don't believe in unicorns either, but if he has anything to protect, and can be coerced in that general direction, then we might even see a unicorn in the coming months.

Interesting times indeed....
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  #1008  
Old 11-09-12, 01:35
JMBeaushrimp JMBeaushrimp is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
A rumour going around that Ferrari of the Michele variety is going to cooperate with the authorities.

I don't believe in unicorns either, but if he has anything to protect, and can be coerced in that general direction, then we might even see a unicorn in the coming months.

Interesting times indeed....
But I swear to god, they do poop cupcakes...
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  #1009  
Old 11-09-12, 01:43
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Originally Posted by JMBeaushrimp View Post
But I swear to god, they do poop cupcakes...
As I have tweeted on a number of occassions now. Are you the originator of this little know and less publicised fact?

Also, a hearty el oh el to your claim of pastry passing by horned, equestrian mammals.
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  #1010  
Old 11-09-12, 01:58
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Shrimp, agree on lauding Routley.

Would be too much to ask for our real pro-peloton leaders (thinking Cadel & Wiggo, and how about Spartacus...) - who would like us to believe they are clean - to make similar/supporting statements? Not necessarily about the past (we understand you don't want to nail your "other" team mates) but at least about the future?
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