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  #8321  
Old 11-09-12, 16:03
the sceptic the sceptic is offline
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Get a serious blood disease. go to Kenya a bit for some magical training. Come back as the best climber and a top 3 time trialist. Sounds legit
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  #8322  
Old 11-09-12, 16:52
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Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
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Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
I would love to see a link where it shows main stream press asking hard questions of Brailsford about Yates, Barry or Julich.
Back at ya.
I'd love to see a link to the irrefutable evidence uncovered by the Clinic that caused these guys to run for retirement and queue up to quit.
Stealing USADA's thunder, indeed.
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  #8323  
Old 11-09-12, 17:06
RownhamHill RownhamHill is offline
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Originally Posted by coinneach View Post

I accept that people have different opinions on this, but unless there is some new EVIDENCE or DATA, I'd prefer it posting was more restrained.

Or is the aim 1000 pages, come what may?
H'mmm. You seem to have forgotten, so I'll remind you.

It's ludicrous to expect there to be any evidence of doping.
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  #8324  
Old 11-09-12, 17:07
RownhamHill RownhamHill is offline
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Originally Posted by Mellow Velo View Post
Back at ya.
I'd love to see a link to the irrefutable evidence uncovered by the Clinic that caused these guys to run for retirement and queue up to quit.
Stealing USADA's thunder, indeed.
See my reminder above.
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  #8325  
Old 11-09-12, 17:10
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JimmyFingers JimmyFingers is offline
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Originally Posted by coinneach View Post
For me the clincher is this years Vuelta: how many riders get to lead a crack team at a GT? If he doped in the past, would he stop before his first big chance? Do you think, if he doped, that his performance would have tailed off like it did?
You must have missed the discussions on Froome at the Vuelta here: at first he was going to smash the Spaniards all over the place, then when he didn't it was 'doper's fatigue' (very very different to normal fatigue), then Hoggo made a very direct prediction he would use his last blood bag on the rest day and come storming back into the top 3, but he didn't.

So race well, you are doping. Race badly, you are doping. The only way you can be clean is by....not racing
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  #8326  
Old 11-09-12, 18:01
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taiwan taiwan is offline
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Originally Posted by ebandit View Post
analytical or non analytical positive.........1st hand testimony of doping practices etc

not continued suggestion

something of true substance
It's the Armstrong defence, worked because the sport is corrupt. If there were evidence of that quality there would be nothing to discuss.
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  #8327  
Old 11-09-12, 18:21
TheGame TheGame is offline
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Liggert theorem. "They have no proof". Being in the company of Phil is a great honor for many here.

Meanwhile in far far away in a lab at Sky HQ:



Froome dawg! Coming to a GT near you!
Not sure I see your point. There is a five year difference between those figures.
So the first, is a 22/23 year old, riding his first Grand Tour as a domestique for a relatively week team. He had already improved massively by the following year in the Giro. Now hes 5 years older and virtually riding as a protected rider. Contador finished 30th in his first GT, at 22, similar position to Froomes first Giro.

If you want ridiculous, look at Andy Schleck who at 22 was finishing on the Podium of Grand Tours.
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  #8328  
Old 11-09-12, 18:23
Grandillusion Grandillusion is offline
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Originally Posted by RownhamHill View Post
H'mmm. You seem to have forgotten, so I'll remind you.

It's ludicrous to expect there to be any evidence of doping.
Tell that to Travis Tygart.
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  #8329  
Old 11-09-12, 18:33
thehog thehog is offline
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Originally Posted by Grandillusion View Post
Tell that to Travis Tygart.
"We have nothing to hide. We like our credibility"
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  #8330  
Old 11-09-12, 18:38
thehog thehog is offline
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Originally Posted by TheGame View Post
Not sure I see your point. There is a five year difference between those figures.
So the first, is a 22/23 year old, riding his first Grand Tour as a domestique for a relatively week team. He had already improved massively by the following year in the Giro. Now hes 5 years older and virtually riding as a protected rider. Contador finished 30th in his first GT, at 22, similar position to Froomes first Giro.

If you want ridiculous, look at Andy Schleck who at 22 was finishing on the Podium of Grand Tours.
Andy Shleck has at least shown his talent early like LeMond or say Fignon. That to me is more normal than Froome Dog.

The Contador example is poor. Look at what Contador did between his first GT and then winning it. (Along with having a brain injury).

Froome did absolutely nothing. Nothing. When racing he showed absolutely none of the prowess he shows today. Ziltch.

Contador dope or no dope was winning races and steadily acceding to his first (albeit doped) GT win.

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2005 – Liberty Seguros-Würth
Vuelta al País Vasco
3rd Overall classification
Winner points classification
1st, Stage 5b (ITT)
Tour Down Under
1st, Stage 5
Setmana Catalana
Winner overall classification
Winner combination classification
1st, Stage 3
Tour de Romandie
4th Overall classification
1st, Stage 4
2006 – Astana-Würth
Tour de Suisse
1st, Stage 8
Tour de Romandie
2nd Overall classification
1st, Stage 3
2007 – Discovery Channel
Vuelta a Castilla y León
Winner overall classification
Winner combination classification
Winner Spanish rider classification
1st, Stage 4
Paris–Nice
Winner overall classification
Winner young rider classification
1st, Stage 4

Last edited by thehog; 11-09-12 at 18:41.
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