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  #4861  
Old 11-10-12, 01:39
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Talking about folks voting against their own self interest:

Quote:
President Obama won women by 12 percentage points,
One of the hardest hit groups economically since the meltdown in 2008. I guess the perception of reduced contraception rights (whatever that means, Can u hear me Ms Fluke?) trumps economic upward mobility. Good to know.... I think.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...gap-in-history
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  #4862  
Old 11-10-12, 01:54
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Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
Talking about folks voting against their own self interest:



One of the hardest hit groups economically since the meltdown in 2008. I guess the perception of reduced contraception rights (whatever that means, Can u hear me Ms Fluke?) trumps economic upward mobility. Good to know.... I think.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...gap-in-history
Probably because most sane people don't blame Obama for the 2008 meltdown.
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  #4863  
Old 11-10-12, 01:58
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Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
Talking about folks voting against their own self interest:

One of the hardest hit groups economically since the meltdown in 2008. I guess the perception of reduced contraception rights (whatever that means, Can u hear me Ms Fluke?) trumps economic upward mobility. Good to know.... I think.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...gap-in-history
Romney never articulated why he would do better than Obama. He relied on, "Trust me. I'm a businessman. I know how to create jobs." I think the reason for this is that Romney truly did not have a plan because he viewed getting elected president like being hired as a CEO. He is a data driven manager. Once on the job, he trusted himself to look at the data and make the right decisions. It might have been true. He might have done a good job. But that is not an inspiring message for the electorate. Romney's attempt to run on economic issues was a failure, so a lot of people looked to other issues.

The "rape senators" and Santorum did a huge amount of damage to Romney. The abortion issue is a long term loser for the Republicans. Their position has no future as youth, who don't see the world the same way, get older. This is true for several other big Republican issues, like gay rights.
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Last edited by BroDeal; 11-10-12 at 07:28.
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  #4864  
Old 11-10-12, 07:26
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Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
Romney never articulated why he would do better than Obama. He relied on, "Trust me. I'm a businessman. I know how to create jobs." I think the reason for this is that Romney truly did not have a plan because he viewed getting elected president like being hired as a CEO. He is a data driven manager. Once on the job, he trusted himself to look at the data and make the right decisions. It might have been true. He might have done a good job. But that is not an inspiring message for the electorate. Romney's attempt to run on economic issues was a failure, so a log of people looked to other issues.

The "rape senators" and Santorum did a huge amount of damage to Romney. The abortion issue is a long term loser for the Republicans. Their position has no future as youth, who don't see the world the same way, get older. This is true for several other big Republican issues, like gay rights.
These two points you have articulated, BroDeal, are precisely why as a country, as a Western civilization and finally as a global society (in that order too), there has become such a paucity of humanity left in politics, political discourse and, therefore, in our proverbial "way of life."

If politics began as the means through which society (polis) is organized, led and directed, under philosophical premises like what is the “communal good vs. bad,” “justice vs. injustice,” “wealth vs. poverty,” “private rights vs. public responsibility,” etc.; then the fact that we should think of this art as merely managerial is not progression, but involution personified. That we should also view society as just another business to be run (and hence who better qualified for the job of president than a businessman? - Clint Eastwood had even rhetorically posited this at Tampa), is further indicative of just how base, that is to say ignoble, our thought and aspirations have become under the monstrous pressures of the market. That market, an abstract concept with forces though of devastating potency making real impact on us all, has been permitted to usurp the role of politics under the illusion that more monetary wealth generated under its hegemony, and hence more material possessions, must be a sort of Final Solution for our species to be perpetuated ad infinitum.

This non-philosophical worldview is certainly more engrained (taken for granted?) in conservative thought than that of liberals, although under the sway of materialism and forced consumption that our economic model demands, as we clearly saw in Clinton's by now famous politicized quote that "it's the economy stupid," any real distinction in this regard within American right-wing/left-wing politics is practically nil. This to me seems like a condemnation, not liberty, but this is another argument.

Under this market hegemony how then can we expect from politicians a different voice with a different message like, for example: telling people that they should start embracing the idea of living with less and being content about it. Moreover, that the accumulation of material wealth in the absence of inner balance and a sense of limit before society, as thus private end and not public means to promote more general wellbeing, does not create "a happy life" nor a "strong country." Yet again, that having no margin in the frenzy of our productivity driven existence to contemplate anything besides materialism, because citizens are ultimately just units of production-consumption that grease the cogs of an implacable machine is Orwellian?

In short in a world governed by forces determining that if sh!t were worth something the poor would be born without a$$es, what political voice other than the one we have repeatedly gotten can leave any margin for "inspiration" (whatever this means)? Instead what we get are ideologically driven arguments over which formula is best to “keep the dream alive” and thus condemn us to a utopian scheme, which has become our prison cell.

Last edited by rhubroma; 11-11-12 at 11:21.
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  #4865  
Old 11-10-12, 14:18
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Probably because most sane people don't blame Obama for the 2008 meltdown.
I agree. As a junior Senator who infrequently voted it would be silly to suggest he had much to do with it.

But as President at the end of his first term?

Women, young people and minorities all with higher unemployment and lower labor participation rates... and yet these were key demographics for the President. So, for these groups, their economic situation must not have been the issue that drove them to vote.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t02.htm

The exit poll data at the NY Times is pretty fascinating.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/re...nt/exit-polls/
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Last edited by Scott SoCal; 11-10-12 at 14:39.
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  #4866  
Old 11-10-12, 14:33
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Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
Romney never articulated why he would do better than Obama. He relied on, "Trust me. I'm a businessman. I know how to create jobs." I think the reason for this is that Romney truly did not have a plan because he viewed getting elected president like being hired as a CEO. He is a data driven manager. Once on the job, he trusted himself to look at the data and make the right decisions. It might have been true. He might have done a good job. But that is not an inspiring message for the electorate. Romney's attempt to run on economic issues was a failure, so a lot of people looked to other issues.

The "rape senators" and Santorum did a huge amount of damage to Romney. The abortion issue is a long term loser for the Republicans. Their position has no future as youth, who don't see the world the same way, get older. This is true for several other big Republican issues, like gay rights.
I agree. Romney was criticized routinely by many in his own party for his lack of specifics. The traditional conservative cultural issues are appealing to only smallish pockets of the country so the R's are going to have to "evolve." It is odd that Obama basically got a pass on the gay marriage issue even though his position just changed recently.

What do you make of some of the exit poll data?
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  #4867  
Old 11-10-12, 14:36
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Scott - I think a lot of those people were picking their poison, feeling that Romney would be worse. That's about all it came down to for a lot of people.

To be candid, I give Obama about another year before he has to shoulder most of the responsible for the political connection to the economy. He gets one chance to get through the fiscal cliff, and a budget. Then the repercussions from that. Blaming Bush and Congress has been somewhat factual in the past, but that's about to end. You can't make people wait forever and say "by the time you retire, the economy will be better...even though you'll have worked the last decade of your life in poverty and are now poor."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
The "rape senators" and Santorum did a huge amount of damage to Romney. The abortion issue is a long term loser for the Republicans. Their position has no future as youth, who don't see the world the same way, get older. This is true for several other big Republican issues, like gay rights.
Christine Todd Whitman was on TV the other day talking about how the GOP is running the serious risk of being the party of old, white men. The irony is that probably half of the Republican party out and out reject her, what she's talking about, and think of her as a RINO. Basically meaning, she's exactly right.
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  #4868  
Old 11-10-12, 14:46
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Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
Scott - I think a lot of those people were picking their poison, feeling that Romney would be worse. That's about all it came down to for a lot of people.

To be candid, I give Obama about another year before he has to shoulder most of the responsible for the political connection to the economy. He gets one chance to get through the fiscal cliff, and a budget. Then the repercussions from that. Blaming Bush and Congress has been somewhat factual in the past, but that's about to end. You can't make people wait forever and say "by the time you retire, the economy will be better...even though you'll have worked the last decade of your life in poverty and are now poor."



Christine Todd Whitman was on TV the other day talking about how the GOP is running the serious risk of being the party of old, white men. The irony is that probably half of the Republican party out and out reject her, what she's talking about, and think of her as a RINO. Basically meaning, she's exactly right.

I think that's probably true.

The other thing when you look at the exit polling is the economy appears not to have been the major driver that Camp Romney thought it would be.

So, I am stunned to be honest. I've been on this board since 2009 telling everyone who would listen that it will come down to the "it's the economy, stupid"..., but that's not what happened.

The groups hurt the worst in our current economy supported Obama by wide margins. I would have bet the anti-incumbent mentality would have been too much for Obama to overcome. Dead wrong, I was.
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  #4869  
Old 11-10-12, 15:14
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Lessons for the GOP.
1. Rape is bad, it should be dealt with w all hands on deck,paid for with anybody's money to solve the problem.
2.Women(and men) don't think that insurance paying for birth control is a controversy.
3. Brown,black and yellow people do count.
4. Don't put Michelle Bachmann on the House Intel Committee and don't put
Mr.Selective rape,Todd Akin on the Science Committee. Don't let the GOP leadership spend a week debating the Light Bulb Freedom Of Choice Act,(yes that is real) GW Bush passed the ban.
5. Never tell seniors that they are getting a super keen voucher for health care.
6. do better math because 47% of anything is sometimes not enough.

be really careful of getting near any cliffs, it may look insane at first but by going headlong off the cliff the Dems will get lots of what they want, deep cuts in lots of programs w protections in place for most programs they want to go untouched.
Each time I pay my tax bill, quarterly, I go between tears and throwing up.I want so bad to understand the other million things the GOP is doing as they mention my 3 or 4 big interests , taxes,health care, infrastructure and schools.
GOP please hit the reset button. You went after the old ,white vote and you even missed your mark there.
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  #4870  
Old 11-10-12, 16:04
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And the first of the names bandied about as possible candidates for 2016 goes down.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...raeus-resigns/

EDIT: should mention that he resigned after it became public that he was having an extramarital affair. Probably not the best thing for the head of the CIA to be doing.
The lady in question, Paula Broadwell, was interviewed in January on the Daily Show. Apparently she went "running" with mr. Petraeus frequently, in the desert.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...aula-broadwell
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