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  #8451  
Old 11-10-12, 23:23
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Originally Posted by noddy69 View Post
My friends ? No need to be so condescending and arrogant, I am open to something being wrong. I dont get why you bother posting you know something for certain than fail to show a shred of evidence other than you know with a 100% certainty. I am someone who doesnt want doping in cycling and am willing to believe something isnt right even though I did buy in to the transparency idea at the start of the year. Stating you know wiggins is working with ferrari is slanderous and dangerous if it isnt true so if it is you should back it up otherwise its plain rubbish.

All you have done is fuel an idea and given it no substance so for the moment its bull until you give it substance.
Apologies no offence intended. I'm enjoying the debate.

What say we go backwards and connect the dots.

Tour de France 2012 - Sky literally rip the legs of every other team to the point they cannot attack (several quotes provided by riders on opposing teams).

Sky not only ripped off peoples legs but they did it with 6 guys (minus the sprinter, his helper and the dude they lost week 1 - ****sou).

Rogers during the Tour taunted the opposition by saying that no one could attack and if they did it didn't matter because he, Little Richie and the other henchmen were all punching 450w+ day in, day out and they'd eventually catch any foolhardy attacker in a short space of time.

Froome-dawg goes a little crazy, attacks, slows, soft pedals, gestures to the yellow jersey like a training ride whilst seasoned climbers (Nibili etc.) in the distance barely abele to keep up. He did this on more than one occasion.

Wiggins and Froome looking like concentration camp refugees somehow manage to go 1-2 in the ITT's and producing more power than the greatest TT'er of all time F.Cancellera. Producing more power for over an hour than guys 10kg more than them! That's like a feather weight fighter knocking down a heavyweight champion of the world!

Froome 10 minutes off the pace at Romandie - each stage.

Froome sick with illness that he can't train for 6-8 weeks of the year. Shows no form in any other race.

Wiggins to his credit had been in form all year but constant comments in the regards to being like Postal, loving Lance, 500 tests etc. are worrying.

are you getting it now....?

They talk of warming down, reverse periodisation, new methods of training dubbed "marginal gains" they head to the number one doper paradise in the world - Tenerife...

...looks a little crazy does it not?

Tenerife, Yates, Rogers, Lance, etc etc etc etc etc.






Ferrari. Period.


With all that cycling for the better part of 20 years has been mired in doping. Riddled with doping. The UCI has a lot of questions over its head. The same people who presided over the doping eras (plural) are still in control. Cyclists, DS and the like have been doping and working with questionable doctors since about 1987.

What changed in 2012 that one team (only) could dominate to such a degree but also be the the line in the sand of clean cycling?

I don't get it.

Last edited by thehog; 11-10-12 at 23:35.
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  #8452  
Old 11-10-12, 23:32
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You tell me.


If they were into marginal gains and new methods of training why do they fall into all the old practices of doping teams before them?
Because they use the best resources and techniques possible, not necessarily the newest techniques. Just FYI reverse periodisation was first used in the 70s I believe, if not earlier. If that involves going to Tenerife then so be it.

And also stop repeating the whole Tour unbelievable performance spiel. Everybody here knows it and it does not contribute anything, even Sky supporters take it in and acknowledge.. just refuse to consider it as definitive proof.
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  #8453  
Old 11-10-12, 23:39
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Because they use the best resources and techniques possible, not necessarily the newest techniques. Just FYI reverse periodisation was first used in the 70s I believe, if not earlier. If that involves going to Tenerife then so be it.

And also stop repeating the whole Tour unbelievable performance spiel. Everybody here knows it and it does not contribute anything, even Sky supporters take it in and acknowledge.. just refuse to consider it as definitive proof.
You're my friend now. But I cracked that RP was from the 70's because you were touting it as some form of new aged training from Sky. I started the thread on this very forum to debunk it as the new new training trick.

I'm not following how RP means going to certain locations in the world.

How does Reverse Periodisation mandate Tenerife as a training venue?

(scratching head).

*Thanks for at least acknowledging Sky performances were ridiculous at the Tour.
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  #8454  
Old 11-11-12, 00:11
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Wiggins was 4th (2nd if you knock out the caught dopers)in 2009 with NO altitude training. Why do it at all?
That is a pretty poor argument though, isn't it? If you do well then why do something that could potentially make you better?
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  #8455  
Old 11-11-12, 00:14
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Originally Posted by Don't be late Pedro View Post
That is a pretty poor argument though, isn't it? If you do well then why do something that could potentially make you better?
Because the altitude training was done to circumvent the de-saturation observed in the 2010 Tour where Wiggins came 24th. As if all of a sudden his 24th in 2010 was due to physiological limitations not present in 2009 and miraculously absent once again in 2011/12.
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  #8456  
Old 11-11-12, 00:32
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Because the altitude training was done to circumvent the de-saturation observed in the 2010 Tour where Wiggins came 24th. As if all of a sudden his 24th in 2010 was due to physiological limitations not present in 2009 and miraculously absent once again in 2011/12.
Or it could be that sometimes people just don't perform to their expected ability every time for a multitude of reasons. Perhaps mentally where for the first time the expectation was on him as leader weighed down on him.

Why until recently did the All Blacks always choke in world cups? Was it down to physiological limitations as well?
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  #8457  
Old 11-11-12, 00:43
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Originally Posted by Don't be late Pedro View Post
Or it could be that sometimes people just don't perform to their expected ability every time for a multitude of reasons.
I'd accept that if there was one underperformance from Wiggins till August 2012, but it was overperformance that I noticed.
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  #8458  
Old 11-11-12, 08:36
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Froome actually worries me (a lot) more than Wiggins in some ways.

I'd be very interested to have a look at his bio-passport over the last 18 months especially considering his problems with Bilharzia.
Me too, ie. interested in Froome's blood data. Didn't know about his Bilharzia/Schistosomiasis. A disease where parasites feed on red blood cells... Life long infection, treated once or twice annually with antiparasitic medication.

One of the great feats of the human body is that if provided/attacked by something from the outside it has the ability to fight/compensate against this foreign influence.

It is possible that Froome will have developed, during his active infection period, an up-regulation of red blood cell producing mechanisms. And this may well explain his "Not Normal" performance in 2012. How long this effect were to persist is a critical question.

I am looking for a suitable analogy. Somewhat similar to how vaccines work. Stimulate the body to react/produce to external stimulus to counteract the relative body weakness/fight the foreign invader introduced by the vaccine.

So yes, blood values would be great to see for Froome. As would be some case literature on Bilharzia/Schistosomiasis and the effect on blood. He may just have been lucky. As lucky as say a Greg Lemond to be born with a sensational VO2Max, but this time as a result of a disease... And analogies to the 400m blade runner Pistorius, with "normal" legs perhaps an ordinary athlete (who knows), with blades making the olympic final...
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  #8459  
Old 11-11-12, 08:41
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Anyone know when/why Froome moved to Monaco? Not your usual town to move to unless you are making serious money, or know you are going to be making serious money. Or your parents living there of course.
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  #8460  
Old 11-11-12, 08:46
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Apologies no offence intended. I'm enjoying the debate.

What say we go backwards and connect the dots.

Tour de France 2012 - Sky literally rip the legs of every other team to the point they cannot attack (several quotes provided by riders on opposing teams).

Sky not only ripped off peoples legs but they did it with 6 guys (minus the sprinter, his helper and the dude they lost week 1 - ****sou).

Rogers during the Tour taunted the opposition by saying that no one could attack and if they did it didn't matter because he, Little Richie and the other henchmen were all punching 450w+ day in, day out and they'd eventually catch any foolhardy attacker in a short space of time.

Froome-dawg goes a little crazy, attacks, slows, soft pedals, gestures to the yellow jersey like a training ride whilst seasoned climbers (Nibili etc.) in the distance barely abele to keep up. He did this on more than one occasion.

Wiggins and Froome looking like concentration camp refugees somehow manage to go 1-2 in the ITT's and producing more power than the greatest TT'er of all time F.Cancellera. Producing more power for over an hour than guys 10kg more than them! That's like a feather weight fighter knocking down a heavyweight champion of the world!

Froome 10 minutes off the pace at Romandie - each stage.

Froome sick with illness that he can't train for 6-8 weeks of the year. Shows no form in any other race.

Wiggins to his credit had been in form all year but constant comments in the regards to being like Postal, loving Lance, 500 tests etc. are worrying.

are you getting it now....?

They talk of warming down, reverse periodisation, new methods of training dubbed "marginal gains" they head to the number one doper paradise in the world - Tenerife...

...looks a little crazy does it not?

Tenerife, Yates, Rogers, Lance, etc etc etc etc etc.






Ferrari. Period.


With all that cycling for the better part of 20 years has been mired in doping. Riddled with doping. The UCI has a lot of questions over its head. The same people who presided over the doping eras (plural) are still in control. Cyclists, DS and the like have been doping and working with questionable doctors since about 1987.

What changed in 2012 that one team (only) could dominate to such a degree but also be the the line in the sand of clean cycling?

I don't get it.
Here we go again, ignorance being peddled as evidence of doping. Just because you don't understand why something happens, it doesn't validate any hypothesis you care to throw up.
SKY's performance wasn't actually that outrageous. They just did what they had to and benefited from the lack of good, organised opposition.
They're well resourced, have recruited well, were well organised, well drilled and had one very specific goal with one rider, taking an opportunity (favourable parcourse and weak field) to get that result.
They rode defensively for almost the entire tour.

You say that Wiggins is working with Ferrari. Categorically, 100%.

I can tell you, categorically, 100% that he is a clean rider.
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