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Old 11-11-12, 02:23
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TheEnoculator TheEnoculator is offline
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Default Astana

After Bruyneel, Armstrong, Contador, you think they have learned their lessons, but now with Vino in management, and by signing Fuglsang and Nibali, they are obviously going all out on the GTs. And we all know the biggest doping programs are for GT racers. There's something going on with this team.

What do you think?
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Old 11-11-12, 03:49
Love the Scenery Love the Scenery is offline
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I think that when the Padua investigation results come out, Astana's position in the World Tour will become untenable. Preliminary reports suggest that these results will show Astana engaged in full-team cooperation with the Michele Ferrari organization. Team salaries were paid into accounts controlled by Ferrari's sports agent associate, from where they were sent to Swiss banks. More money was paid into these accounts than was reported to tax authorities, hence the charge of money laundering that will be brought by Italian prosecutors. Some of the surplus money was withdrawn and used to buy doping products, or to pay for Ferrari's services.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/17-1...38790314.shtml

The problems with Astana go way beyond Vinokourov's blood doping.
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Old 11-11-12, 07:54
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Astana has moved a lot of money and when a team moves much money you have to give back to the mark results. To get them we know what is the way that is often used. Astana has had a close relationship since birth with disreputable doctors. I do not think the renovation is so deep this year, hopefully, but it is difficult in such a short time.
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Old 11-11-12, 08:48
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I'll take it Enoculator that you didn't read the news item on the main page regarding Fuglsang. He was stating that it is hard to find a clean team. And here he is signing for Astana.

But lets be honest. Kreuziger failed to reach the lofty heights Astana set for him. Now does that mean he was on a Vino like program and couldn't deliver or that he was on next to no program and did remarkably well? Perhaps there is another option as...feel free to add it anyone. Also Fuglsang was shafted heavily by Bruyneel this year. He missed every GT didn't he? Nibali cannot get priority at every race and Fuglsang is a solid racer. Back on Radioshack Andy Schleck get top pegging, then Kloden and Horner are still kicking and Maxime Monfort is there as well. Depending on the teams aims and goals...well that will set the scene. BTW, Nibali has been linked to Ferrari before. Whether he lost Ferrari and hence Vino and Astana have set him up with someone else to handle his program...well it's a possibility to explain joining Astana. Of course the massive paycheque Liquigas couldn't match doesn't hurt either. And we all know doping programs cost some serious $$$.

Let's face it, I think there is one person on the entire forum who doesn't think Astana dopes to a degree. Though if they race like Vino use to it'll be interesting. Kreuziger and Nibali work very well together. Very well. I for one am glad they are back racing together. Did any of the Liquigas guys join Nibali? Like Szymd? Anyone know?

Last edited by Galic Ho; 11-11-12 at 08:50.
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Old 11-11-12, 09:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galic Ho View Post
Let's face it, I think there is one person on the entire forum who doesn't think Astana dopes to a degree.
Pat on the forum too?
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Old 11-11-12, 09:59
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I don't think anyone will feel like defending Astana and this thread will die a short dead....like so many thread.
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Old 11-11-12, 10:09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galic Ho View Post
I'll take it Enoculator that you didn't read the news item on the main page regarding Fuglsang. He was stating that it is hard to find a clean team. And here he is signing for Astana.

But lets be honest. Kreuziger failed to reach the lofty heights Astana set for him. Now does that mean he was on a Vino like program and couldn't deliver or that he was on next to no program and did remarkably well? Perhaps there is another option as...feel free to add it anyone. Also Fuglsang was shafted heavily by Bruyneel this year. He missed every GT didn't he? Nibali cannot get priority at every race and Fuglsang is a solid racer. Back on Radioshack Andy Schleck get top pegging, then Kloden and Horner are still kicking and Maxime Monfort is there as well. Depending on the teams aims and goals...well that will set the scene. BTW, Nibali has been linked to Ferrari before. Whether he lost Ferrari and hence Vino and Astana have set him up with someone else to handle his program...well it's a possibility to explain joining Astana. Of course the massive paycheque Liquigas couldn't match doesn't hurt either. And we all know doping programs cost some serious $$$.

Let's face it, I think there is one person on the entire forum who doesn't think Astana dopes to a degree. Though if they race like Vino use to it'll be interesting. Kreuziger and Nibali work very well together. Very well. I for one am glad they are back racing together. Did any of the Liquigas guys join Nibali? Like Szymd? Anyone know?
Wait what
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Old 11-11-12, 10:54
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Given that Astana have run into these problems before but have always been able come through them - no doubt brown envelopes pushed in the direction of the UCI always help. I'm sure that they will be able to get through this.

Vino has doping and also bribery allegations against him.

And the Kazakh fed will be sure to look after Vino just like they did before.
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Old 11-11-12, 13:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galic Ho View Post
Kreuziger and Nibali work very well together. Very well. I for one am glad they are back racing together. Did any of the Liquigas guys join Nibali? Like Szymd? Anyone know?
Vanotti and Agnoli. Capecchi and Szmyd went to Movistar.
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Old 11-12-12, 01:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaFlorecita View Post
Wait what
Sure there was talk of tension, but the 2010 Giro had Kreuziger setting pace for Nibali nonstop. Proof is in the pudding. They put differences aside and focus on working for the stronger rider and it tends to work for them.

If this weren't the case Kreuziger would be leaving Astana. I haven't heard of him leaving. Brajkovic and Kreuziger are good support for Nibali regardless of personality issues. I think you'll find the the issues before were over who was going to be the heir apparent at Liquigas. Nibali got the nod for whatever reason despite Kreuziger having at the time slightly better palmares. But that is from 2009. Three years later Nibali has the better palmares.
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