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  #8571  
Old 11-12-12, 13:55
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JimmyFingers JimmyFingers is offline
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But you're using English context not Italian.

Languages do not directly translate into one another.

You can't use context as interchangeable meanings. You have to know the language.

The Italian language is renound for "over emphasis". The real meaning of the word would be "burnt" in English.

But you have to read everything Ferrari was saying. It wasn't "don't go to Tenerife". It was more "be careful - the land is burnt". It's a romantic language not cockney

Besides it was you who was quoting the 3rd-4th hand Ferrari report and stating it confirmed Sky's "innocence".

I look forward to the Sky PR machine using Ferrari in there next round of advertisements! Lol!

Ferrari is an unreliable source. If I were you I avoid using him as the beacon Sky's innocence. Especially when you don't have a link to what he actually said.

Give it a rest.

So back to Yates. Did you know he recommend Tenerife to Wiggins based on Armstrong's experience?
So just to clarify, this is your version of what Ferrari said, your translation and your interpretation. There seem to be other people translating and interpreting it other ways. I assume you have qualifications in the Italian language?

As despite saying it several times: I am not using Ferrari's quotes which you are so anxious to dismiss as a 'beacon' for Sky's innocence, merely saying that they are unlikely to be working with him as he indicated in that exchange with Bertognolli that using Teide is, shall we say dangerous?

I think even you might agree that to avoid both suspicion and the authorities, Teide is not the best choice for 'training'?
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  #8572  
Old 11-12-12, 14:05
Ferminal Ferminal is offline
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Ferrari's word is of course contradicted by "the islands are a disaster" (search the quote).

So you have two points of view, without knowing which one is (more) correct. Are you more, or less likely to be OoC'ed on Tenerife and other islands in the middle of nowhere? Not sure we can answer that.
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  #8573  
Old 11-12-12, 14:12
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Originally Posted by JimmyFingers View Post
So just to clarify, this is your version of what Ferrari said, your translation and your interpretation. There seem to be other people translating and interpreting it other ways. I assume you have qualifications in the Italian language?

As despite saying it several times: I am not using Ferrari's quotes which you are so anxious to dismiss as a 'beacon' for Sky's innocence, merely saying that they are unlikely to be working with him as he indicated in that exchange with Bertognolli that using Teide is, shall we say dangerous?

I think even you might agree that to avoid both suspicion and the authorities, Teide is not the best choice for 'training'?
Go to an Italian wedding and then you'll learn about "over emphasis"! Crying, singing, laughing all within 5 minutes of each other. Hear an Italian speak of their wife or husband. Love them so much but hate them all at the same time. Pantani was a classic example. His life long girlfriend was the best thing for him and the worst.

I think we need to cancel out Ferrari and his comments. He's unreliable. He's a convicted fraudster who's not admitted to his crimes. For the best part of 20 years he's being running the world most sophisticated and elaborate doping ring.

Do we really want to go quoting Ferrari? The Don of drugs?

To your final point. I agree 100%. If I were doping I'd not go to Tenerife. Alas dopers are creatures of habit (you need to cover your tracks) and Yates and Wiggins are not the smartest tools in the shed. They appear to follow the Armstrong/Ferrari template to a tee.

I think with the Sky members on the UCI board they had the testers angle covered though hence the use of Tenerife.


As side note you might want to ask TexPat about how he used to Chauffeur Ferrari about to avoid being seen by journalists and with Armstrong. All of that happened right under the media's nose without anyone knowing.
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  #8574  
Old 11-12-12, 14:17
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Originally Posted by Ferminal View Post
Ferrari's word is of course contradicted by "the islands are a disaster" (search the quote).

So you have two points of view, without knowing which one is (more) correct. Are you more, or less likely to be OoC'ed on Tenerife and other islands in the middle of nowhere? Not sure we can answer that.
Do we know how many OOC tests were carried out at the various remote training camps last year?
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  #8575  
Old 11-12-12, 14:24
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Do we know how many OOC tests were carried out at the various remote training camps last year?
Not sure, I think in general there are far too few OoC tests for EPO.
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  #8576  
Old 11-12-12, 14:38
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Not sure, I think in general there are far too few OoC tests for EPO.
Related to this - under whose remit would OOC testing on Tenerife come? UCI? UKADA? Spanish anti-doping (who I see have been told to take a 50% budget cut next year)
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  #8577  
Old 11-12-12, 15:18
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JimmyFingers JimmyFingers is offline
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post

I think we need to cancel out Ferrari and his comments. He's unreliable. He's a convicted fraudster who's not admitted to his crimes. For the best part of 20 years he's being running the world most sophisticated and elaborate doping ring.

Do we really want to go quoting Ferrari? The Don of drugs?

To your final point. I agree 100%. If I were doping I'd not go to Tenerife. Alas dopers are creatures of habit (you need to cover your tracks) and Yates and Wiggins are not the smartest tools in the shed. They appear to follow the Armstrong/Ferrari template to a tee.
Clearly someone speaking candidly to a client, a someone you describe as the Don of Drugs, has huge relevance to this debate. You are are trying to soften the interpretation of the remarks before trying to dismiss them altogether. Sounds like an attempt to sweep what he has sent under the carpet.

Secodnly you say dopers are creatures of habit, how so? I simply don't understand the remark and you are attaching a personality trait to a very disparate group of people. And if you need to cover your tracks, surely habitual routines aren't the way to do it. As for Yates and Wiggins' intellect, I'm not sure you are qualified to judge
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  #8578  
Old 11-12-12, 15:19
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Bernie's eyesore Bernie's eyesore is offline
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Originally Posted by ebandit View Post
before analysing ferarri's words would it not be best to establish a link

between ferarri and sky

the hog states he has proof of a working relationship but when pushed

changes that to............'join the dots etc'

myself and others say that unless it can be confirmed there is no link
I'd like to hear more about this link too but as it came from someone who thinks that Froome won the Tour de France, I won't be holding my breath.
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  #8579  
Old 11-12-12, 15:42
Ferminal Ferminal is offline
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Related to this - under whose remit would OOC testing on Tenerife come? UCI? UKADA? Spanish anti-doping (who I see have been told to take a 50% budget cut next year)
Should be UCI.

Problem is getting someone out there, taking samples, and getting back to a certified lab in time.
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  #8580  
Old 11-12-12, 15:44
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Should be UCI.

Problem is getting someone out there, taking samples, and getting back to a certified lab in time.
Which would make it an appealing location for someone looking to do some OOC doping.
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