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  #8601  
Old 11-12-12, 17:29
andy1234 andy1234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Januss View Post
How often has it happened in a GT since 1990 or so?
Maybe 2011, maybe 2012.
Maybe none.

I have no first hand experience of a rider I guarantee to be clean winning a GT.
Stages yes, leading the race, yes, overall winner, no.

Does that mean its impossible? I'm willing to keep an open mind.

Last edited by andy1234; 11-12-12 at 17:49.
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  #8602  
Old 11-12-12, 17:34
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thehog thehog is offline
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Originally Posted by Spencer the Half Wit View Post
Because of what Ferrari apparently said about avoiding it. I know Ferrari is a lying, cheating, low life but what he apparently said would have been in confidence to a client and is therefore more likely to be correct than not.

Unless it was all a huge double bluff
But the timeline doesn't fit.

Sky were training there in 2011. The Ferrari comment came out in very late 2012.

So when were Sky informed that its a good place for a clean team to train? It has a notorious history. SKy went there when it was still known for its past. And still went there.

Yates loved the place and recommended Wiggins to go there because of Armstrong.

Also the translation was poor. He was saying "be careful" not "don't go".

Which makes sense.
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  #8603  
Old 11-12-12, 17:36
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thehog thehog is offline
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Originally Posted by Grandillusion View Post
You'll be pointing that fact out to hog 'til you're blue in the face, without getting any reply.

.
Yes. Never tested positive.

My god. Haven't we come a long way!
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  #8604  
Old 11-12-12, 17:56
Grandillusion Grandillusion is offline
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Yes. Never tested positive.

My god. Haven't we come a long way!
Jeez hog, I'm honestly not trying to shut you down, your level of knowledge (and humour) are both impressive, and I'm learning lots from you and the other guys.

But Benotti was talking about the usefulness of the OTHER type of evidence. The type successfully used to almost destroy your sport (it was needed, unfortunately).

The never tested positive stuff is irrelevant.

But thanks for at least replying
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  #8605  
Old 11-12-12, 18:07
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Spencer the Half Wit Spencer the Half Wit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehog View Post
But the timeline doesn't fit.

Sky were training there in 2011. The Ferrari comment came out in very late 2012.

So when were Sky informed that its a good place for a clean team to train? It has a notorious history. SKy went there when it was still known for its past. And still went there.

Yates loved the place and recommended Wiggins to go there because of Armstrong.

Also the translation was poor. He was saying "be careful" not "don't go".

Which makes sense.
And here we go full circle. You have said Sky (or at least Wiggins) are working with Ferrari, so presumably they (he) would have known of Ferrari's advice. On the other hand if they are clean why would they give a stuff about Ferrari/other teams/past history, they would go to Tenerife for the good training conditions. That is why I can't follow your logic
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  #8606  
Old 11-12-12, 18:16
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thehog thehog is offline
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Originally Posted by Spencer the Half Wit View Post
And here we go full circle. You have said Sky (or at least Wiggins) are working with Ferrari, so presumably they (he) would have known of Ferrari's advice. On the other hand if they are clean why would they give a stuff about Ferrari/other teams/past history, they would go to Tenerife for the good training conditions. That is why I can't follow your logic
I agree with you. But I'm not the one saying Ferrari "advice" is a sign of their cleanliness or not.

I've said they're going to Tenerife with Yates, Rogers and Ferrari.

What Ferrari has said to Sky we'll never know. Besides the quote attributed to Ferrari came in late 2012 not 2011.

So maybe he's warnes Bergatoli after Sky have tried there 5 times in one year?

Who knows? I'm not using his advice as anything because its 4th hand and he's a liar.

But many here latched onto his quote as "proof" that Tenerife is clean.

Do you follow now?
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  #8607  
Old 11-12-12, 18:30
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Hugh Januss Hugh Januss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy1234 View Post
Maybe 2011, maybe 2012.
Maybe none.

I have no first hand experience of a rider I guarantee to be clean winning a GT.
Stages yes, leading the race, yes, overall winner, no.

Does that mean its impossible? I'm willing to keep an open mind.
Yes I know how that goes, I am still keeping an open mind about whether the earth is really round and the second gunman theory.
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  #8608  
Old 11-12-12, 18:55
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Spencer the Half Wit Spencer the Half Wit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thehog View Post
I agree with you. But I'm not the one saying Ferrari "advice" is a sign of their cleanliness or not.

I've said they're going to Tenerife with Yates, Rogers and Ferrari.

What Ferrari has said to Sky we'll never know. Besides the quote attributed to Ferrari came in late 2012 not 2011.

So maybe he's warnes Bergatoli after Sky have tried there 5 times in one year?

Who knows? I'm not using his advice as anything because its 4th hand and he's a liar.

But many here latched onto his quote as "proof" that Tenerife is clean.

Do you follow now?
Not really, but if you've got evidence of the bolded bit it may become clearer as to what your logic is. At the minute it just seems to be confirmation bias.
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  #8609  
Old 11-12-12, 20:18
armchairclimber armchairclimber is offline
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Evidence of Ferrari working with SKY will no doubt emerge from Italy in the immediate future. Won't it Hog?
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  #8610  
Old 11-12-12, 20:25
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DirtyWorks DirtyWorks is offline
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Originally Posted by ebandit View Post
so what steps would those be?

financial pay offs?.....................but how effective would they be

i don't know about yourself............but i would take the £...........
As this relates to the big question of Sky's doping, imagine a scenario where Sky buys non-positives from the UCI. In the era of oxygen-vector doping, this is a way to pick very likely winners.

The how of that is unknown. We don't know what happens to sample reports inside the UCI. Contador's positive suggests the process is not particularly anonymous.

All that said, it seems like Hein would do it to the ASO without a moment of hesitation. Imagine the money he could pocket for strategically supressing tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebandit View Post
then speak out later......one could hardly be in breach of contract

if speaking about dodgy activity?
It's not that there's a perfect defense to speaking out or the exit money is too good to pass up. It's that the lawyer bills to work through that defense would impoverish the Omerta-breaker.
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Last edited by DirtyWorks; 11-12-12 at 20:38.
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