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  #11  
Old 11-14-12, 13:30
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Originally Posted by sniper View Post
it's clever by sky.
draw staff from endurance disciplines where PED-testing has been relatively lax.
sky has the means to attract the creme de la creme of coaches untainted by PED-rumors.
no doubt this guy knows how to 'produce' winners.
and it begins...
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  #12  
Old 11-14-12, 13:33
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But then that argument can easily be spun the other way. If you go with the logic that Sky has a doping programme in place the obvious thing would be to get a clean guy in. That way you don't even have to pretend. Behind the scenes everything continues as before.
well taken.
but it's about marginal gains, remember? you don't stay ahead of the game by bringing in clean crusaders or social reformers.
look at this guy's CV, his palmares is filled with olympic medals.
as there is per definition no PED-free environment at the top pro-level, there is simply no way this guy can be trusted to engage in clean sport.
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  #13  
Old 11-14-12, 13:33
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thanks and indeed.

all prosport is indeed dirty, especially at the top. there can not and need not be any doubt about that.
Illegal performance enhancing means are inherent to any professional business, not just sports. Hell, even most charity business is dirty, just as the amateur sport level is nowadays swamped by PEDs.
Don't be late pedro would be wise to take these assumptions as a starting point, in order to enhance his thought process.
Interesting that you use the word assumptions and not facts. My thought process tends to work better with the latter whereas the former tends to lead to the mother of all...
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  #14  
Old 11-14-12, 13:43
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Originally Posted by sniper View Post
well taken.
but it's about marginal gains, remember? you don't stay ahead of the game by bringing in clean crusaders or social reformers.
look at this guy's CV, his palmares is filled with olympic medals.
as there is per definition no PED-free environment at the top pro-level, there is simply no way this guy can be trusted to engage in clean sport.
But again, if he had not real track record people here would be even more suspicious of him. i.e. What is he bringing to the table if not a successful track record of winning. Given cycling's history it is not surprising that this is the first view of a new coach but don't you think at some point along the line you are going to be accusing perfectly innocent people?

There was a thread a little while back which started with a picture of a Cofidis rider and him being clean. Someone was straight in with the first post saying he rides for Cofidis so obviously he dopes. It was, in fact, David Moncoutie whom is one of the few guys that most people acknowledge as being clean. I would suggest this is the exception that proves the rule.
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  #15  
Old 11-14-12, 13:48
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Now I have said all that I bet the ****er is going to be involved in some doping scandal...
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  #16  
Old 11-14-12, 13:51
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Shouldn't this thread be a "mention" in the Sky thread?
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  #17  
Old 11-14-12, 13:51
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Originally Posted by Don't be late Pedro View Post
But again, if he had not real track record people here would be even more suspicious of him. i.e. What is he bringing to the table if not a successful track record of winning. Given cycling's history it is not surprising that this is the first view of a new coach but don't you think at some point along the line you are going to be accusing perfectly innocent people?

There was a thread a little while back which started with a picture of a Cofidis rider and him being clean. Someone was straight in with the first post saying he rides for Cofidis so obviously he dopes. It was, in fact, David Moncoutie whom is one of the few guys that most people acknowledge as being clean. I would suggest this is the exception that proves the rule.
I'm not accusing this guy.
I'm just pointing out some rather obvious things
That this guy has been working with doped up athletes is if course not a fact in the history books, but it's rather obvious nonetheless.
He knows what is required to reach the top, and he'll know it doesn't happen on paniagua.

But this is not yet a guarantee for success. He first has to prove himself at sky. He might have to adapt. He might fail.
How do we explain Cadel's top year in 2011 and his bad form in 2012? One explanation is that his doctor, as experienced as he may be, failed to properly prepare Cadel. Apparently experience isn't everything.
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  #18  
Old 11-14-12, 13:54
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Originally Posted by Don't be late Pedro View Post
Now I have said all that I bet the ****er is going to be involved in some doping scandal...
el oh el.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-12, 13:59
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Ridiculously ironic that this thread was started in the Clinic before any links to doping were found about him..

To me it seems that the claims are made first and then only after the links are "discovered"
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  #20  
Old 11-14-12, 14:01
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Originally Posted by Froome19 View Post
Ridiculously ironic that this thread was started in the Clinic before any links to doping were found about him..

To me it seems that the claims are made first and then only after the links are "discovered"
If Sky had hired someone who we know to be 100% clean (not that such a thing is possible), it would merit a 100 page thread in here about how it was all a smokescreen to hide their doping practices.
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