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  #5031  
Old 11-15-12, 01:47
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There's a whole slew of city govts that are preparing for BK now.
Some are well past preparing for it:

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In bankrupt San Bernardino, a third of the city's 210,000 people live below the poverty line, making it the poorest city of its size in California. But a police lieutenant can retire in his 50s and take home $230,000 in one-time payouts on his last day, before settling in with a guaranteed $128,000-a-year pension. Forty-six retired city employees receive over $100,000 a year in pensions.
The most depressing aspect of this situation, to me, is that itís not the result of a few bad individuals. Itís systemic:

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But unlike in the small Southern California cities of Bell, where eight city officials face trial on allegations that they stole from the public, and Vernon, where three officials have been convicted of corruption, San Bernardino's problems appear to be mainly the result of back-scratching on an epic scale.
And thereís no way to cut back on pensions now:

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A 1999 law championed by Calpers, known as SB 400, cut the retirement age five years and increased benefits for state workers, all on the premise that a rising stock market meant benefits could be juiced up at little or no cost. Many cities and counties, though not required to go along, were happy to heed Calpers' analysis. About half - including San Bernardino ó adopted the richer benefit formula.

When the stock market tumbled in 2000, cities and towns suddenly had to ramp up payments to Calpers to make up for the hit to their fund balances, which were heavily invested in shares. Fee-hungry investment bankers stepped into the breach.

Led by the now-defunct Lehman Brothers, they persuaded many cities - including San Bernardino and Stockton, which is also in bankruptcy - that the best way to satisfy growing obligations to Calpers was to borrow the money via so-called pension obligation bonds. San Bernardino raised $50 million in 2005 by issuing these notes. Between 1999 and 2009, 26 California cities sold about $1.7 billion of debt to fund their pensions, including bond issues that were used to pay off earlier debt.

'CALPERS VERSUS WALL STREET'

Yet even in bankruptcy, reducing pension costs by cutting benefits is not an option - at least according to Calpers.

The pension agency says the benefits are carved in stone, arguing that from the day a worker is hired, the pension plan in place on that day for that person can never be reduced in value under any circumstances, including municipal bankruptcy.
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  #5032  
Old 11-15-12, 03:10
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No it won't collapse; it will differentiate and transform. Collapse and crisis are earlier modern concepts of population control that no longer obtain. (Environmental cases will persist, but be managed nonetheless.) Romney's loss in the face of the media and monetary push might have suggested that to you.

That aside, the direction of this thread suggests the obvious: that state territories and rights need to be radically reconceived. Whether that would curb the now inbuilt absurdity of California's approach to politics at large-or long that might take--is another matter.

In the absence of Federal intervention California defaults. It's that simple.
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  #5033  
Old 11-15-12, 03:14
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Well, if you're right about the debt, then this is wrong. It seems the debt increased from 5.8 to 11.9 trillion under Bubba's watch, and had advanced to 14.3 by July 11, when these figures appear to be based on. Whatever the increase since then, it is slightly dishonest to suggest that Obama has doubled the debt.

It was 10.6 trillion at he end of the Bush admin. It's 16 trillion now, give or take a few hundred billion.

One of the first orders of business for the lame duck congress will be to increase our debt limit another 2.5 trillion.

Ain't that special.
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  #5034  
Old 11-15-12, 03:21
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Some are well past preparing for it:



The most depressing aspect of this situation, to me, is that it’s not the result of a few bad individuals. It’s systemic:



And there’s no way to cut back on pensions now:
Yes sir. The public pension system's current systemic problems can be laid at the feet of our current Governor (stuff he did in his first go around) and Governor Gray Davis.

And yet, AND YET, the idiotic electorate here just approved a substantial income tax increase to shore up the CalSTRS pension system (sister pension system for public school teachers).

In the private sector here, if you can't laugh about it, all you can do is cry.

EDIT: San Bernardino has defaulted on pension payments to CalPers. The pension giant was seen stomping their feet and Mayor Morris was overheard on his cell phone telling the pension puppet masters that he was having trouble squeezing blood out of a turnip. All but the default of payments to CalPers was completely made up by me.
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  #5035  
Old 11-15-12, 03:44
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Anybody wanna talk about what Wall Street thinks of BO's reelection?

No? Okay... Just don't open your 401(k) statement. Shred it. Seriously.
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  #5036  
Old 11-15-12, 04:01
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Anybody wanna talk about what Wall Street thinks of BO's reelection?

No? Okay... Just don't open your 401(k) statement. Shred it. Seriously.

you dont just create a straw man you build a friggn straw house

seriously rationalize deduce all information for a change with out emotion and self love

il beat you to the punch and propose your natural reaction to this will be to call me an apologist.

not

you the so called patriot, master of the constitution a believer in all branches of government, yet blame one
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  #5037  
Old 11-15-12, 04:25
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you dont just create a straw man you build a friggn straw house

seriously rationalize deduce all information for a change with out emotion and self love

il beat you to the punch and propose your natural reaction to this will be to call me an apologist.

not

you the so called patriot, master of the constitution a believer in all branches of government, yet blame one
You're right. Probably just a coincidence, er.. European troubles. Would you believe Hurricane Sandy? No? How about the fiscal cliff? Okay, I got it... concerns in the Middle East. No? US credit rating? Divided government? No and no?

I guess it must be election results then.

On a serious note, have you noticed all the money being pulled out of equities and placed in tax free muni bonds? I'll bet you can guess why that might be... given the election results. Blame one? Eh, praise one if you are Pimco, Cantor Fitzgerald, etc.
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  #5038  
Old 11-15-12, 08:52
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You're right. Probably just a coincidence, er.. European troubles. Would you believe Hurricane Sandy? No? How about the fiscal cliff? Okay, I got it... concerns in the Middle East. No? US credit rating? Divided government? No and no?...
Europe's troubles, when taken in light of US national debt, are vastly blown out of proportion. The EU, however, unlike America, in the absence of the $ can't leverage to off some of its deficit upon the shoulders of other states around the globe.

This is all about financial speculation from the IMF, which is controlled by Americans, and the ECB that is run by similar liberal ideologues. Then there would by the hedge funds, but this is another story.

I have been saying it for years, what we see taking place by the great financial banks against single EU states, is no less than liberalism's all-out war against social democracy and the public institutions that make it up, which have provided millions with good healthcare, affordable education and retirement pensions since WWII. It has been the most civilized experiment in the history of civilization, but is now under ferocious attack by the most greedy and ideologically motivated ubercapitalists of these Strong Powers.

This is why the social unrest we have been witnessing in Europe for the past several years is destined to augment, given the ruthlessness of the enemy, who wants nothing less than the end of collectivism and the privatization of everything according to their free-market orthodoxy and profit logic.

Now I can't say what Europe should do, although the cases of Iceland and Ecuador come to mind, however I would suggest that the EU make precise choices: it can't defend the markets, capital and the financial institutions always at the expense of the people. Those that provoked the global crisis need to be forced to pay the price, which to the contrary has only fallen upon the shoulders of the populations.

This is a crisis, furthermore, that's both connected to growth in the EU, but also to its social democratic values. Though it is above all a crisis that's been desired by capital to reassert its hegemony over human beings. The great welfare societies, with good public education and medical care, don't fall in line with the liberal ideology and thus have been placed under ferocious attack by the Strong Powers and hence targeted by them for extinction. The hundreds of thousands of protesters of late in Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, France, Germany and Britain, among whom a preponderance of youth who have progressively seen their futures denied them, are belligerent and virile, democratic manifestations that betray a keen awareness of this fact. That is perception of the global war of capital against society.

The case of Ecuadorian president Correa is instructive in this regard. Without having tangible proofs, it is nonetheless obvious that Ecuador's government has terribly annoyed many powers: economic, financial and political; for refusing to pay off its foreign debt, in an act of defiance the audacity of which, was simply too brazen to go unpunished by the capitalists. For this reason the opposition has been financed and encouraged by foreign states and principally the US to slander and misrepresent Correa through its mass media apparatus, in another effort in the long list of many to have overthrown, or killed, a democratically elected leader, to then set up an anti-democratic puppet gov. much more congenial and subservient to the aims of capitalism. Yet, so far, the majority people of Ecuador have resisted and held them off. It is in light of this situation that Ecuador has offered Julian Assange asylum at its London embassy, in the name of free information against the nefarious forces of obscurantism and repression, as well as a criminal attempt to have the Australian extradited, tried, condemned and finally put to death in America.

Either capital wins, in which case we revert backwards into a kind of market feudalism, or else society wins and we put the market fundamentalists in their place, while providing some damn humanity into the system (which has gotten horrendously skewed). Unfortunately, all bets are on the former outcome.

Last edited by rhubroma; 11-15-12 at 19:00.
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  #5039  
Old 11-15-12, 11:41
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Originally Posted by Scott SoCal View Post
You're right. Probably just a coincidence, er.. European troubles. Would you believe Hurricane Sandy? No? How about the fiscal cliff? Okay, I got it... concerns in the Middle East. No? US credit rating? Divided government? No and no?

I guess it must be election results then.

On a serious note, have you noticed all the money being pulled out of equities and placed in tax free muni bonds? I'll bet you can guess why that might be... given the election results. Blame one? Eh, praise one if you are Pimco, Cantor Fitzgerald, etc.
It does have something to do with the election. There were some reports out post-election that Wall Street was trading on the worry of Tax of a tax increase.
There are other things at play that could cause even more trouble with portfolios. Israel killing the Hamas terrorist is one of them. The fact that most of the European countries give out money to just take the summer off is another. Now people are ****ed because they have to have a cut in a pension system that does not take in enough money?

California seems determined to join the European Union with the way they run the state.
http://www.marke****ch.com/story/us-...eat-2012-11-14
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  #5040  
Old 11-15-12, 12:46
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[QUOTE=rhubroma;1080025]Europe's troubles, when taken in light of US national debt, are vastly blown out of proportion. The EU, however, unlike America, in the absence of the $ can't leverage to off some of its deficit upon the shoulders of other states around the globe.

This is all about financial speculation from the IMF, which is controlled by Americans, and the ECB that is run by similar liberal ideologues. Then there would by the hedge funds, but this is another story.

I have been saying it for years, what we see taking place by the great financial banks against single EU states, is no less than liberalism's all-out war against social democracy and the public institutions that make it up, which have provided millions with good healthcare, affordable education and retirement pensions since WWII. It has been the most civilized experiment in the history of civilization, but is now under ferocious attack by the most greedy and ideologically motivated capitalists of these Strong Powers.

This is why the social unrest we have been witnessing in Europe for the past several years is destined to augment, given the ruthlessness of the enemy, who wants nothing less than the end of collectivism and the privatization of everything according to their free-market orthodoxy and profit interests.

Now I can't say what Europe should do, although the cases of Iceland and Ecuador come to mind, however I would suggest that the EU make precise chooses: it can't defend the markets, capital and the financial institutions always at the expense of the people. Those that provoked the global crisis need to be forced to pay the price, which to the contrary has only fallen upon the shoulders of the populations.

This is a crisis, furthermore, that's both connected to growth in the EU, but also to its social democratic values. Though it is above all a crisis that's been desired by capital to reassert its hegemony over human beings. The great welfare societies, with good public education and medical care, don't fall in line with the liberal ideology and thus have been placed under ferocious attack by the Strong Powers and hence targeted by them for extinction. The hundreds of thousands of protesters of late in Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, France, Germany and Britain, among whom a preponderance of youth who have progressively seen their futures denied them, are belligernet and virile, democratic manifestations that betray a keen awarness of this fact. That is of the global war of capital against society.

The case of Ecuadorian president Correa is instructive in this regard. Without having tangible proofs, it is nonetheless obvious that Ecuador's government has terribly annoyed many powers: economic, financial and political; for refusing to pay off its foreign debt, in an act of defiance the audacity of which, was simply too brazen to go unpunished by the capitalists. For this reason the opposition has been financed and encouraged by foreign states and prinicpally the US to slander and misrepresent Correa through its mass media apparatus, in another effort in the long list of many to have overthrown, or killed, a democratically elected foreign leader, to then set up an anti-democratic puppet gov. much more congenial and subserviant to the aims of capitalism. Yet, so far, the majority people of Ecuador have resisted and held them off. It is in light of this situation that Ecuador has offered Julian Assange assylum at its London embassy, in the name of free imformation against the nefarious forces of obscurantism and repression, as well as a criminal attempt to have the Australian extradited, tried, condemned and finally put to death in America.[/QUOTE]

Wrong. There is an European arrest warrant for him that originates in Sweeden. I thought there was only a threat of Extraditon. Put to death? Do you believe that?

Cheer up man and watch this. http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/vide...am-style-video
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Last edited by Glenn_Wilson; 11-15-12 at 12:50.
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