Doping, nationalism, culture - CyclingNews Forum

Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-16-12, 15:04
pleyser pleyser is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 58
Default Doping, nationalism, culture

I came across an insightful article over at Velonews (who knew?)...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...-doping_265230

The article goes way beyond Armstrong in its scope, though the university professor didn't have to go far afield to find appropriate subject matter.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-16-12, 15:11
sniper sniper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,824
Default

excellent stuff. thanks.
Quote:
“The UCI under McQuaid is no longer tenable,” he said.

In “Testosterone Dreams,” Hoberman details how governing institutions like the UCI are hamstrung by their leaders’ self interest. “Too many of these federations become autocratic fiefdoms where the president’s word is law,” he writes, adding that self preservation and self aggrandizement make institutions like the UCI and IOC naturally resistant to internal reform. “Restoring hope to young athletes who are demoralized by competing against steroid-assisted records has been less important than preserving intact the egos and reputations of sports officials who were accountable to no one but themselves.”
Quote:
Hoberman is leery of payoff scandals surrounding people like Pat McQuaid and Australian Olympic Committee Chairman John Coates, who the UCI recently picked to recommend members for a commission looking into its own handling of the Armstrong Affair.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-16-12, 16:51
coinneach coinneach is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 612
Default

Good article.....I also think it explains a lot of the misunderstandings on the Clinic.
I'm British, and the national attitude towards doping in sport no doubt affects my values. We've lived with "failure" at cycling for generations, apart from Olympics over the last 12 years. I simply cannot believe any of the Olympic (cycling) success is doping related, though I did have suspicions about the male athletics sprinters and a female javelin thrower for a while 20-30 years ago.
I cannot for example, believe that a sport drug cheat would be elected in this country (although our PM, like many others, obviously experimented with drugs during adolescence).
If Sky was found to be involved in doping, so much would unravel that it simply is beyond my comprehension. I cannot believe it, though if evidence came out, I'd like to think I was open to re-evaluate. We'd rather a valiant loser than a doped winner every time.
But posters from the USA & Australia seem just not to understand the Brits, and view our nationalist faith as amusing or pitiable. I kinda admire the Aussie in your face way of directness, but have more of a problem with American dominance & what I perceive as arrogance.
I think if we spent a bit more time being honest about our mindsets, we might understand each other better?
I'm going to read the article again!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-16-12, 17:33
D-Queued D-Queued is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by coinneach View Post
Good article.....I also think it explains a lot of the misunderstandings on the Clinic.
I'm British, and the national attitude towards doping in sport no doubt affects my values. We've lived with "failure" at cycling for generations, apart from Olympics over the last 12 years. I simply cannot believe any of the Olympic (cycling) success is doping related, though I did have suspicions about the male athletics sprinters and a female javelin thrower for a while 20-30 years ago.
I cannot for example, believe that a sport drug cheat would be elected in this country (although our PM, like many others, obviously experimented with drugs during adolescence).
If Sky was found to be involved in doping, so much would unravel that it simply is beyond my comprehension. I cannot believe it, though if evidence came out, I'd like to think I was open to re-evaluate. We'd rather a valiant loser than a doped winner every time.
But posters from the USA & Australia seem just not to understand the Brits, and view our nationalist faith as amusing or pitiable. I kinda admire the Aussie in your face way of directness, but have more of a problem with American dominance & what I perceive as arrogance.
I think if we spent a bit more time being honest about our mindsets, we might understand each other better?
I'm going to read the article again!
You'd best start reconsidering your 'stiff upper lip'.

You had some doubts about who, Linford Christie? I trust that your concerns have been laid to rest. Fortunately, he has denied ever taking steroids. Now we only have to worry about his 15 month driving ban.

I have always loved how Christie escaped a ban in 1988 (Olympics made famous by fellow sprinter Ben Johnson): "It was reported that two of the judging panels were asleep when the vote was taken."

Ah, poor Ben. He gets nailed while cheaters like Christie and Carl Lewis walk away with medals from "the dirtiest race in history".

Asleep during the vote? It appears the Brits are just so much more civilized about cheating the system, and the ROW has a lot to learn.

Loved the movie Chariots of Fire. It was so inspirational. Loved how Abrahams, ultimately the elder statesman of British athletics, cheated by hiring a professional coach. Loved how the Prince of Wales pressured Liddell to go against his faith, and the organizers to change the racing schedule.

Anyhow, fortunately all cheating in British Sport is limited solely to some Jamaican born sprinter. Nothing of the sort would ever happen in Futbol, of course.

Well, goodness, cheating just isn't Cricket! (unless it is the English and their match rigging, ball tampering...)

Now, are you sure that dubious characters have never risen to influential positions within the British political system? Perhaps Cromwell was elected to French Parliament.

C'mon mate, open your eyes. Your countrymen have provided centuries worth of examples for the colonies to follow.

Dave.
__________________

Lance says he will cooperate with Landis Investigation


"I've done too many good things for too many people"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-16-12, 17:36
Deagol Deagol is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,189
Default

great article..


"Hoberman says he closed his 2005 SCA report by concluding that Armstrong was a categorical, systematic liar. Paraphrasing his report, Hoberman recalls writing that 'he is surviving only because he is a cancer survivor and an icon'.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-16-12, 18:19
wilts rover's Avatar
wilts rover wilts rover is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Queued View Post
You'd best start reconsidering your 'stiff upper lip'.

You had some doubts about who, Linford Christie? I trust that your concerns have been laid to rest. Fortunately, he has denied ever taking steroids. Now we only have to worry about his 15 month driving ban.

I have always loved how Christie escaped a ban in 1988 (Olympics made famous by fellow sprinter Ben Johnson): "It was reported that two of the judging panels were asleep when the vote was taken."

Ah, poor Ben. He gets nailed while cheaters like Christie and Carl Lewis walk away with medals from "the dirtiest race in history".

Asleep during the vote? It appears the Brits are just so much more civilized about cheating the system, and the ROW has a lot to learn.

Loved the movie Chariots of Fire. It was so inspirational. Loved how Abrahams, ultimately the elder statesman of British athletics, cheated by hiring a professional coach. Loved how the Prince of Wales pressured Liddell to go against his faith, and the organizers to change the racing schedule.

Anyhow, fortunately all cheating in British Sport is limited solely to some Jamaican born sprinter. Nothing of the sort would ever happen in Futbol, of course.

Well, goodness, cheating just isn't Cricket! (unless it is the English and their match rigging, ball tampering...)

Now, are you sure that dubious characters have never risen to influential positions within the British political system? Perhaps Cromwell was elected to French Parliament.

C'mon mate, open your eyes. Your countrymen have provided centuries worth of examples for the colonies to follow.

Dave.
Interesting response,however I would have taken it more seriously if you had mentioned Tony Kaye and the Shef Wednesday betting scandal in futbol, (or even Bruce Grobelaar and the brown envelopes), Harlequins and their 'bloodgate', even WG Grace putting the bails back on and Bodyline. Thats without mentioning Saturday afternoon wrestling. But a Hollywood film where you get the details wrong (the organiser's didnt change the schedule, Liddell changed events), come on.

But to quote Oliver Cromwell as an example of corruption in the British political system!!! He's probably the only one who wasn't corrupt. You could pick any one from Tony Blair, Thatcher, Wilson, Lloyd George, Ramsay McDonald et al and every royal in history - but Cromwell, I'm off for a lie down with a cup of tea.
__________________
say it ain't so, Joe please, say it ain't so, I'm sure they're telling us lies Joe, please tell us it ain't so
they told us our hero has played his trump card he doesn't know how to go on, we're clinging to his charm and determined smile, but the good old days are gone........ were gonna get burned, burned.....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-16-12, 18:53
D-Queued D-Queued is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,184
Default

^^^ Was meant to be light-hearted.

But, Cromwell? Sheesh.

Dave.
__________________

Lance says he will cooperate with Landis Investigation


"I've done too many good things for too many people"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-16-12, 19:21
lean,mean,&green's Avatar
lean,mean,&green lean,mean,&green is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 736
Default

good article. hoberman has a pretty good understanding of the problem but he seems surprisingly clueless about potential solutions.
__________________
"In great attempts it is even glorious to fail" -V Lombardi
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-16-12, 19:46
peterst6906 peterst6906 is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 669
Default

This is the quote of the article for me (from Page 2):

Quote:
“There is a simultaneous competition to demonstrate, or at least give the impression, that one is a loyal member of WADA,” Hoberman told VeloNews. “The medals competition is now quite seriously being accompanied by a ‘who can produce the best ostensibly drug-free show.’”

As an example of the heights this theater can reach, Hoberman points out that Alexander Lukashenko, the nefarious Belarussian dictator that recently fired his country’s sports minister and deputy for only delivering 12 gold medals in London, “issued a ringing declaration that his athletes were going to be clean.” Belarussian shotputter Nadzeya Ostapchuk lost her London gold medal after testing positive for steroids.

“The scum of the earth can play that game,” said Hoberman. “I mean, he is a criminal. And when Lukashenko comes out beating his breast over what a great anti-doper he is, it’s obvious that this is a political game that is running parallel with and attached to the traditional sportive nationalism.”
That sums up a lot of the problem, the need to balance the desire for national success with the challenge of appearing clean.

Everyone wants their athletes to be successful. In some ways, nationally run anti-doping authorities run counter to that desire if they do their job effectively. I'm sure many countries want their ADAs to be nothing more than a PR mechanism on a facade of clean sport.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-16-12, 20:55
Grandillusion Grandillusion is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 254
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lean,mean,&green View Post
good article. hoberman has a pretty good understanding of the problem but he seems surprisingly clueless about potential solutions.
It's a fantastically thought provoking article. He's been thinking about this problem for 25 years, and the implications are pretty bleak really aren't they?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.