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  #461  
Old 11-17-12, 05:51
thehog thehog is offline
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when I read the same awhile back, I found it very strange he was willing to bet so heavily on himself. With his relationship with the uci, it is apparent why. This too may explain why he had no qualms in being a rat and turning in Hamilton and mayo. Losing a tour to either one would have meant a loss of winnings in excess 10 million if I am understanding the terms correctly.

With such heavy bets on himself, it becomes easy to see why it was perfectly acceptable to himself to justify anything. I kind of wonder if he made hard bets on himself in the comeback and that was the reason for his and the hogs outrage against contador. I too wonder if the comeback wasn't also fueled by insurance companies giving better payouts in the belief that it would be very unlikely for him to win the race after being out of the game for a number of years. Maybe, that was going to be a mega payday.
Armstrong took swift action on SCA for good reason. He could handle journalists but he was very frightened by an insurance company sniffing about in regards to doping. Give the too much time and they may have begun to uncover a trail of lies and deception. They had to the money to find out.

The smoking gun of SCA now claim is that Armstrong engaged them. Meaning it was a premeditated deception.

12m no fault, undisclosed, 2 months.
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  #462  
Old 11-17-12, 05:51
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DirtyWorks DirtyWorks is offline
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Originally Posted by Dr. Maserati View Post
Sidecar?? Don't lawyer me, please

I don't know what that is - but from the below it appears clear there were separate agreements with Chubb & Lloyds, (yes, I admit I am perturbed that I remember this stuff).

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/R053.pdf

Hmmm. So, let's say Wiesel sets the gamble up and pitches it to Pat and Hein. In exchange for their cooperation in the form of suppressed drug tests and so on, they get a part of the Lloyd's/Chubb/SCA payout. What's $2 million when you are keeping the other 5-10 million?

There's *still* something keeping Hein and Pat defending Wonderboy. Could that be it?
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Last edited by DirtyWorks; 11-17-12 at 05:54.
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  #463  
Old 11-17-12, 10:52
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Benotti69 Benotti69 is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post
Hmmm. So, let's say Wiesel sets the gamble up and pitches it to Pat and Hein. In exchange for their cooperation in the form of suppressed drug tests and so on, they get a part of the Lloyd's/Chubb/SCA payout. What's $2 million when you are keeping the other 5-10 million?

There's *still* something keeping Hein and Pat defending Wonderboy. Could that be it?
I guess Hein and Pat are involved in lots of stuff linked to wonderboy.

They probably made big bets on wonderboy winning tours knowing that he would never fail any test, well not outside the lab.
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  #464  
Old 11-17-12, 11:56
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I guess Hein and Pat are involved in lots of stuff linked to wonderboy.

They probably made big bets on wonderboy winning tours knowing that he would never fail any test, well not outside the lab.
If that were the case you have 2 options yeah?

SCA-like company - who would surely be kicking up a fuss.
Mob-like group - who would surely be measuring up cement boots.
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  #465  
Old 11-17-12, 12:17
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Fortyninefourteen Fortyninefourteen is offline
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Armstrong took swift action on SCA for good reason. He could handle journalists but he was very frightened by an insurance company sniffing about in regards to doping. Give the too much time and they may have begun to uncover a trail of lies and deception. They had to the money to find out.

The smoking gun of SCA now claim is that Armstrong engaged them. Meaning it was a premeditated deception.

12m no fault, undisclosed, 2 months.

Undisclosed will characteriize most if not all settlements.
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  #466  
Old 11-17-12, 16:06
D-Queued D-Queued is offline
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Originally Posted by Zweistein View Post
when I read the same awhile back, I found it very strange he was willing to bet so heavily on himself. With his relationship with the uci, it is apparent why. This too may explain why he had no qualms in being a rat and turning in Hamilton and mayo. Losing a tour to either one would have meant a loss of winnings in excess 10 million if I am understanding the terms correctly.

With such heavy bets on himself, it becomes easy to see why it was perfectly acceptable to himself to justify anything. I kind of wonder if he made hard bets on himself in the comeback and that was the reason for his and the hogs outrage against contador. I too wonder if the comeback wasn't also fueled by insurance companies giving better payouts in the belief that it would be very unlikely for him to win the race after being out of the game for a number of years. Maybe, that was going to be a mega payday.
The precedent goes back to the Thrift Drug triple crown.

He paid off other teams and riders in order to secure the $1m 'will never happen' prize for the three wins.

He already knew how easy it was to win, and exactly how to pull it off.

Get the best drugs, the best doctors, get your teammates on the best drugs and doctors, pay off the competition (Hello Ivan), and for good measure make sure the UCI is working with you.

Same scam only bigger.

Dave.
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  #467  
Old 11-17-12, 18:54
thehog thehog is offline
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Originally Posted by D-Queued View Post
The precedent goes back to the Thrift Drug triple crown.

He paid off other teams and riders in order to secure the $1m 'will never happen' prize for the three wins.

He already knew how easy it was to win, and exactly how to pull it off.

Get the best drugs, the best doctors, get your teammates on the best drugs and doctors, pay off the competition (Hello Ivan), and for good measure make sure the UCI is working with you.

Same scam only bigger.

Dave.
Excellent observation.

What a rascal. Just a big fat fraud.
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  #468  
Old 11-17-12, 19:54
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Zweistein Zweistein is offline
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Excellent observation.

What a rascal. Just a big fat fraud.
It would be funny if the crash he had at the 2003 tour was intentionally caused by an unhappy insurer. Well, I suppose if it was intentional, there are a lot of people who wouldn't have been too upset with him crashing out. Watching it, it always came across to me like the person intentionally swung out the bag to hook his bars.

Last edited by Zweistein; 11-17-12 at 19:58.
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  #469  
Old 11-17-12, 20:45
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It would be funny if the crash he had at the 2003 tour was intentionally caused by an unhappy insurer. Well, I suppose if it was intentional, there are a lot of people who wouldn't have been too upset with him crashing out. Watching it, it always came across to me like the person intentionally swung out the bag to hook his bars.
A discontented insurance company pays off a small child to hook a bag onto Lance's bars, provided he's at the front of the group when they come past, oh and riding very close to the crowd as usual, on the same side of the road as our hitman child is standing. I love a good conspiracy theory but this one takes the biscuit
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  #470  
Old 11-18-12, 03:43
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Zweistein Zweistein is offline
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Originally Posted by will10 View Post
A discontented insurance company pays off a small child to hook a bag onto Lance's bars, provided he's at the front of the group when they come past, oh and riding very close to the crowd as usual, on the same side of the road as our hitman child is standing. I love a good conspiracy theory but this one takes the biscuit
I would find it funny if that was the case. As strange as things have been in cycling, that would not even be in the top ten.

Computers at labs being hacked

UCI officials being paid off to make positives disappear

Doped riders ratting out doped riders

Bicycles being given away and resold on ebay to avoid a money trail

Riders rushing to dope in the evening after the latest time they can be tested so that they won't test positive in the morning

A rider being stripped of 7 tour de france wins

Federal investigations

Witness intimidation

Rider's employment hinging on decision whether to dope

Rider's babysitting each others blood to prevent it from going bad due to a power outage

Riders almost dieing due to their blood bags going bad

Guys on motorcycles driving around blood bags

Team buses having fake break downs on the roads so the riders can refill on blood

Riders burying dope in the woods

Investigators receiving death threats

The threat is made to reveal a former tour de france rider's childhood sexual abuse to try to prevent him from testifying

A former pro-rider is offered 300,000 usd to fabricate claims against an outspoken anti-doping tour de france winner

A rider uses his clout to get a few congressmen to pull strings to interfere with an investigating agency

A cancer non-profit severing ties to its founding member

Every major sponsor bailing on a star rider all at once

The UCI being sued by a sponsor for fraud

The UCI selectively choosing which riders will test positive

A former world champion and tour de france winner calling for the head of the UCI to resign

A rider stripped of a tour de france win and not only admits to doping but does basically everything possible to destroy the structure that supports it

A rider bet on himself to win the tour de france six times in a row by taking out insurance policies

Insurance company sues said rider after he was stripped of all his victories

The most successful U.S cycling team is headed up by a coach that doped riders on the U.S junior national team

A rider wins the Thrift Drug Triple Crown series and the million dollar prize by paying off other teams

Backdated doctor's note being accepted at the tour de france when a rider test positive for cortisone. The same rider went on to win the overall. That years tour de france was promoted as the Redemption following the Festina crisis.

A rider comes back from cancer and continues using doping products which may have caused him to develop cancer in the first place


The present state of cycling is a bad movie.

Last edited by Zweistein; 11-18-12 at 17:18.
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