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  #2521  
Old 11-17-12, 19:39
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Of course you would probably consider Contador heroic no matter what .

But even if I was like most here and despised Schleck I would still find his efforts on Galibier heroic and epic. There's no denying that was an epic ride he did.
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  #2522  
Old 11-17-12, 19:41
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Originally Posted by LaFlorecita View Post
Personally I think Alberto was more heroic. He was even heroic when he went BOOM! on Galibier

yea I don't think Andy was heroic in 2011 Tour but ok I can understand schleck fans think he was
You cant compare anyone with Alberto its another level of word 'heroic' you know

btw.just for the case,it was heroic ride from Andy
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what? quintana is already better climber than froome. see final stages of the tour and he's only 23. quintana is the best climber I've sene since pantani. he will become a legend
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  #2523  
Old 11-17-12, 19:53
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Originally Posted by Afrank View Post
Of course you would probably consider Contador heroic no matter what .

But even if I was like most here and despised Schleck I would still find his efforts on Galibier heroic and epic. There's no denying that was an epic ride he did.
As I said galibier was good but I don't think you can say Andy was heroic in the mountains because it was just one stage.
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  #2524  
Old 11-17-12, 19:53
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You cant compare anyone with Alberto its another level of word 'heroic' you know
you are right
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  #2525  
Old 11-17-12, 20:03
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As I said galibier was good but I don't think you can say Andy was heroic in the mountains because it was just one stage.
yeah, maybe not overall in the mountains, but definitely heroic on that stage. And heroic in how he pulled himself back into contention.
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  #2526  
Old 11-17-12, 21:07
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Originally Posted by Afrank View Post
Of course you would probably consider Contador heroic no matter what .

But even if I was like most here and despised Schleck I would still find his efforts on Galibier heroic and epic. There's no denying that was an epic ride he did.
I know a number.of posters.on here who argued pretty ferociously that there was nothing special about schleck galibier and that he wasn't even the rider of the day and that losing 2 minutes on the final km was pathetic etc. El p was 1, cineteq another. So the usual suspects.

Personally i found the performance special but his refusal to do anything in the pyranees and then the ridiculous comment that only him and his wheelsucker of the tour brother did anything that race, is a dampener as far as looking at his performance over the whole 3 weeks.
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  #2527  
Old 11-17-12, 21:16
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I know a number.of posters.on here who argued pretty ferociously that there was nothing special about schleck galibier and that he wasn't even the rider of the day and that losing 2 minutes on the final km was pathetic etc. El p was 1, cineteq another. So the usual suspects.

Personally i found the performance special but his refusal to do anything in the pyranees and then the ridiculous comment that only him and his wheelsucker of the tour brother did anything that race, is a dampener as far as looking at his performance over the whole 3 weeks.
Don't they teach you to check your sources at English universities?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpos...&postcount=402
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horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
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  #2528  
Old 11-18-12, 01:35
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Don't they teach you to check your sources at English universities?

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpos...&postcount=402
I didnt say you never changed your mind in order to troll someone else or critiscise other riders, what i said was that you spent the entire 2011 post season playing down Andys performance.

Heres some sources btw. Relevant primary sources

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He wasn't the best in 2011. He could never get a gap on anyone except on one stage where no one bothered to react on his attack.
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He made most of his time in the valley between the two mountains. That's why I'm not really counting it.
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What he did on Galibier was a tactical win. You can't say that Andy was a better climber than Cadel Evans on that stage. I doubt Andy would have dropped Cadel Evans if they were together at the Galibier
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They let him go, that much was obvious. Evans practically took the whole final climb for him self and reduced the gap between them A LOT. Who was the strongest that day? I don't know
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He was sucking wheels most of the time until Galibier anyway. 50k time trial? LOL. I still remember the percentages of the time they spent up front. It was something like 35% for Monfort, 24% for Andy and around 20% for Dries Devenys. You can't suck wheels in a time trial

Andy got dropped by Evans, Contador and Samu on a cat2 climb. Best climber my ***. Andy never dropped Cadel Evans on the climbs.
Even fellow Andy Schleck Haterz were trying to calm you down

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It just seems quite acceptable and to be expected that his tempo/time advantage would decrease on the final climb to the mtf after the time spent in/on his escape. To say it's an indication of his pursuants (or one in particular, Evans) being a better climber as a result of their decreasing his maximum advantage is really difficult for me to even fathom as a serious argument.

And plenty more of those throughout 2011 -2012

btw, Id like to share this from immediate post stage reaction as i found it funny


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Devenys is a crap cyclist. I really hope QS fails and no big name signs for that team. He had no reason to pull what so ever. I wish him and QS all the worst.
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But right now, I think Leosmart offered some money to QS. Besides Boonen and Bettini I never liked anyone of that team anyway
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  #2529  
Old 11-18-12, 02:02
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Yes those are all facts. No one reacted to his initial attack(fact) and he didn't do a 50km solo like someone claimed(fact), he had other people with him(fact). And Devenys should never have worked with Andy because they were on different teams(fact). People shouldn't offer money to get an unfair advantage(fact).

In the valley he mostly followed wheels and probably did the least pulls of the breakaway group with Monfort and Devenys doing the most. (fact)

All those posts say it was a tactical win. He was not the strongest climber that Tour further evidenced by the fact that he never dropped anyone on all the other climbs.

Though I never actually diminish his victory now do I? Tactics is part of the game. And he did most of the Galibier, if not all, by him self.

It's when people say he was the strongest climber in that Tour that I'll say no. He wasn't. Do you think Andy would've dropped Evans that day when they were both together? Very unlikely! Evans had to do most of the Galibier by him self as well, dropping Contador and Sanchez in the process.

I have always thought it was a great tactical victory with lot's of strength involved as well. But was he the strongest that day like many claimed? How can you know for sure? Evans had been climbing very well that Tour and Andy never dropped him in a man to man duel. Evans on the other hand had dropped Andy uphill multiple times that Tour. That suggests he was stronger. And yeah, I hated Devenys' involvement in helping Andy - it was so obvious that he did it for cash. If Andy had gifted him a stage win I'd understand, but he did no such thing. He had nothing to gain from helping Andy except financially. It's sad that rich riders can just buy the help of others while less rich riders have to do it by themselves.

So exactly why are you bringing those posts up without showing the full discussion? That's a very one sighted view. Don't they teach otherwise there?

Am I not allowed to have an opinion? I don't think Andy was the strongest climber of the 2011 Tour. Nor do I automatically think he's the best climber of that stage just because he won. Like I said, most of the time was made in the valley between the mountains. They weren't really chasing that hard at that point because they thought they'd catch him easily. Evans admitted that was a big mistake of him.

Just because I don't think Andy was the strongest climber of the Tour, or automatically the best climber of that particular day, doesn't mean it wasn't an impressive performance. But I guess it's either black or white with you. Sometimes it's gray Hitch. Actually, most of the time it's gray.

If you ask me who the best climber of the Tour was that year then I'll answer with either Evans or Samuel Sanchez(who had one bad day).

But if we follow your one sighted logic I guess that makes Thomas De Gendt the strongest climber of the day when he won on Stelvio! Can't you see the error in your logic? It's painfully obvious. I get that you think Andy was the strongest climber that day. I don't think that. I don't know who was the strongest climber that day. You apparently do. I bet you win a lot of money with such insight... Is it that hard to accept that the strongest rider doesn't always win? That's what makes cycling so unpredictable. Andy was obviously one of the strongest riders that day and for sure... He had the biggest balls that day. But like I said, it doesn't automatically make him the best climber. It just doesn't. Evans was also very strong that day.

So if saying Evans could've followed Andy that day if he reacted to Andy's initial attack is downplaying Andy's victory than yes, I'm guilty!

Perhaps you are overestimating Andy's performance on that day. Ever thought of that? Oh no wait, I forgot you are always right. How silly of me...

It's the same with Contador's stage win on Fuente De. How can you know for sure he was the strongest climber that day and not Valverde? The difference was that Contador had bigger balls than Valverde and that's why he won. He also played it brilliant tactically together with his team. Tiralongo also helped. But unlike with Devenys' I don't think money was involved here. Just Tira repaying Contador for the stage he won in the Giro... You could see that as part of a grander tactic: gifting someone a stage to get their support on a different stage when you might need it. As long as there's no money involved I'm cool with it really.

So basically the 2 stages were very comparable, but you make a fuss about nothing.

Have a good day.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week

Last edited by El Pistolero; 11-18-12 at 03:20.
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  #2530  
Old 11-18-12, 05:17
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Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
I know a number.of posters.on here who argued pretty ferociously that there was nothing special about schleck galibier and that he wasn't even the rider of the day and that losing 2 minutes on the final km was pathetic etc. El p was 1, cineteq another. So the usual suspects.

Personally i found the performance special but his refusal to do anything in the pyranees and then the ridiculous comment that only him and his wheelsucker of the tour brother did anything that race, is a dampener as far as looking at his performance over the whole 3 weeks.
Both Evans and Schleck were winners on the Galibier stage and both rides were heroic even though Schleck's was the more daring. By leaving it so late in the race to really attack Evans unfortunately it played into Evans hands. He rode within himself the next day while Schleck looked exhausted after the previous day's efforts, crossing the finishing line on the Alpe, immediately grabbing the fence to steady himself. Evans hates the Alpe climb and never usually does well there as he has admitted before but he looked comfortable with Contador up the road and time to spare. I just think Evans and his team handled the three weeks much better than the Schleck's but without Andy's heroics and Contador's attack the next day it seems Evans would have won the race by four minutes or so if the TT performances were similar to the actual ones, which would have been a lot duller than the great final three days that we witnessed.
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