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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2013 Tour
Alberto Contador 61 63.54%
Cristopher Froome 25 26.04%
Andy Schleck 6 6.25%
Vincenzo Nibali 2 2.08%
Cadel Evans / Teehay Van Garderen 2 2.08%
Ryder Hesjedal 1 1.04%
Alejandro Valverde / Juan Jose Cobo 1 1.04%
Other (specify) 1 1.04%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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  #291  
Old 11-19-12, 16:25
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Angliru Angliru is offline
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
I can not understand why everyone draws a gulf between Schleck and Contador and the rest, if we talk about climbers too. It is positioned like sort of an unassailable fortress for 2 in which there is no entrance. It became an autotraining - limitless 'other league until the opposite to be proven'. I'm sure many things will be shaken after the 2013 Tour.
Until others prove worthy of ascending to their level (in the mountains) and that can only happen by them showing it on the road, we can only base these judgements on the riders' track record. It's not that complicated. Froome has yet to climb versus Andy and Alberto when he and they were at their best so for you and us it can only be speculation on what heights he (Froome) has risen in the hierarchy of the climbing elite. I'm not ready just yet to rate him with the present champions of the mountains, that being Alberto and Andy.
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  #292  
Old 11-19-12, 16:28
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Froome19 Froome19 is offline
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Though we have no proof to claim that Froome is up there with Contador and Schleck it would not be all that ridiculous to assume so based on his previous perfomances.
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  #293  
Old 11-19-12, 16:29
Jakob747 Jakob747 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jason_Mercier View Post
Wow, there's Juanjo Cobo I think the next TDF will suppose a change of direction in the GC battles view. My arguments, an Alberto Contador morally wounded, the vindicate of Andy Schleck, brave riders like Chris Froome and Alejandro Valverde, a solid and combative gc contender with a great team (for first time for him) like Nibali, new GC contenders which rides an offensive cycling like Thibaut Pinot and even Quintana (if Movistar take him to France) The route is a nonsense but the riders can do an epic race. And not only the TDF, the appeareance of new escarabajos probably will bring us nice days of cycling.
T. Pinot will minimum do a Top-5 GC ride in TdF 2013! ...
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  #294  
Old 11-19-12, 16:30
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Jason_Mercier Jason_Mercier is offline
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
I wasn't implying that. trust me I'm the biggest fan and follower of colombian cycling I can think of but indeed the mountains will be ridden in a whole different way. tour of utah 2011 was a good example of this. next year I expect coldeportes to ride in 1 gt at least 99%
I know it. I was only clarifying my point of view. I hope this.
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  #295  
Old 11-19-12, 19:45
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Afrank Afrank is offline
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
I can not understand why everyone draws a gulf between Schleck and Contador and the rest, if we talk about climbers too. It is positioned like sort of an unassailable fortress for 2 in which there is no entrance. It became an autotraining - limitless 'other league until the opposite to be proven'. I'm sure many things will be shaken after the 2013 Tour.
2010 Tour we saw Schleck and Contador climb away from everybody with ease on the Tourmalet. That day they officially marked themselves out at the best climbers in the peloton. And I can't recall seeing another climbing performance like the one they put on that day in the last couple years. Sure the current crop of newer GC guys like Froome might be able to hang in there but until we see them in-form actually engaged in a climbing battle with the best climbers and hanging in there, we can't really call them one of the current best climbers in the world.

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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
I agree wholeheartedly. we will have a multitude REAL climbers next year for instance instead of a few like purito and contador. not saying these will be great gc riders, but they will be an important factor, because with them mountainstages will be ridden differently
Amen, can't wait to see the Colombian climbers, among others, making everyone else suffer in the mountains .
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  #296  
Old 11-19-12, 19:45
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ILovecycling ILovecycling is offline
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
I wasn't implying that. trust me I'm the biggest fan and follower of colombian cycling I can think of but indeed the mountains will be ridden in a whole different way. tour of utah 2011 was a good example of this. next year I expect coldeportes to ride in 1 gt at least 99%
I hope Quintana will kick *** Wiggins,purito etc. in a mountain finish

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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
what? quintana is already better climber than froome. see final stages of the tour and he's only 23. quintana is the best climber I've sene since pantani. he will become a legend
I am a fan of Afrank's hyping posts!
Excuse me for my English
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  #297  
Old 11-19-12, 19:52
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ILovecycling ILovecycling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airstream View Post
I can not understand why everyone draws a gulf between Schleck and Contador and the rest, if we talk about climbers too. It is positioned like sort of an unassailable fortress for 2 in which there is no entrance. It became an autotraining - limitless 'other league until the opposite to be proven'. I'm sure many things will be shaken after the 2013 Tour.
Few km before summit of Tourmalet Contador and Schleck have 1'40 to the group behind them.Did you see this kind of performace in 2011 or 2012 from anyone?I dont think so,its pretty obvious that there is 'unassainble fortress'...but the fortress has little entrance probably for people like Froome,maybe he will be in the 'fortress' after Tour 2013,maybe not
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
what? quintana is already better climber than froome. see final stages of the tour and he's only 23. quintana is the best climber I've sene since pantani. he will become a legend
I am a fan of Afrank's hyping posts!
Excuse me for my English
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  #298  
Old 11-19-12, 21:11
airstream airstream is offline
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Originally Posted by Afrank View Post
2010 Tour we saw Schleck and Contador climb away from everybody with ease on the Tourmalet. That day they officially marked themselves out at the best climbers in the peloton. And I can't recall seeing another climbing performance like the one they put on that day in the last couple years. Sure the current crop of newer GC guys like Froome might be able to hang in there but until we see them in-form actually engaged in a climbing battle with the best climbers and hanging in there, we can't really call them one of the current best climbers in the world.
True, but it was a separate day. An excellent day for Schleck and Contador. Mediocre day for Menchov who wavered all the way up to the top and Sanchez who crashed. The stage showed tendency but not its value. It's naive to assume that Contador and Schleck could have done something similar 2-3 times in the race even jointly, if they had needed this. So, that's a distance, but not a gulf.

To me Froome's climbing level in comparison to these 2 is unknown, to put it mildly. 2.5 years is too much to trust that relation of forces entirely.
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  #299  
Old 11-19-12, 21:16
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Originally Posted by ILovecycling View Post
Few km before summit of Tourmalet Contador and Schleck have 1'40 to the group behind them.Did you see this kind of performace in 2011 or 2012 from anyone?I dont think so,its pretty obvious that there is 'unassainble fortress'...but the fortress has little entrance probably for people like Froome,maybe he will be in the 'fortress' after Tour 2013,maybe not
You offer to consider that stage the mirror of nowadays climbing hierarchy? IMO it's quite doubtful.
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  #300  
Old 11-19-12, 21:18
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Angliru Angliru is offline
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Originally Posted by airstream View Post
True, but it was a separate day. An excellent day for Schleck and Contador. Mediocre day for Menchov who wavered all the way up to the top and Sanchez who crashed. The stage showed tendency but not its value. It's naive to assume that Contador and Schleck could have done something similar 2-3 times in the race even jointly, if they had needed this. So, that's a distance, but not a gulf.

To me Froome's climbing level in comparison to these 2 is unknown, to put it mildly. 2.5 years is too much to trust that relation of forces entirely.
If you admit that Froome's climbing level in comparison to Contador and Schleck is unknown, as many of us have been trying to impress upon you along, then why do you find it so hard to accept that until he proves himself against them we can't place him at their level?
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