Keisse doping case dismissed

[blackcat]

NB. those were my upper estimates. I know their are jnrs doping, I know there are masters doping. But the ones that dope would be in the slim minority. Miniscule numbers. And not everyone is doping in the pro field. To assume the market is this big, you must come from the BigBoat school of conspiracy that EVERYONE dopes. No way. There are 450 Protour riders. Plus another 400 in Europe. 200 who make a living in US. 1000 top espoirs. 500 top jnrs. Are they all on Amgen manufactured epo? No way. Perhaps 1% of them get some black market epo that was from an Amgen facility. Lots are doping on epo bio-similars and autologous blood I appreciate it. And the percentage none higher than the Protour.

[HoustonHammer]

Originally Posted by blackcat

I add it up like Martinello too.
<snip>
Where is the market? I just cannot see the market this big.

I don't know what the rest of the EPO market looks like, so it's hard to say. But I don't think that's the point. Unless I missed it, I didn't think anybody was saying that the pharma companies see elite athletes as an end market. The suggestion seems to be that they can be a useful source of guinea pigs during the drug development phase. That's an appealing argument, but I don't buy it.

I'm also very skeptical of conspiracy theories. BASIL asked how athletes got the drug before it was released. That's a good question, but are sure they did have it prior to release? In the US, Epogen/Procrit was first approved by the FDA for sale in 1989.

[HoustonHammer]

Originally Posted by HoustonHammer

I'm also very skeptical of conspiracy theories.

Notwithstanding my preceding logic-based post, here's a couple of points for the committed conspiracy-theory nuts to discuss amongst themselves:
- Is is just coincidence that Amgen decided to market EPO under the trade name "ProCrit". Hmmm?
- Check out this link: Access to the site is split for 'Patients' and 'Professionals'. Talk about cheek- they don't even try to hide it!!

[MiXels]

Originally Posted by HoustonHammer

Access to the site is split for 'Patients' and 'Professionals'. Talk about cheek- they don't even try to hide it!!

Health Care Professionals.

[HoustonHammer]

Originally Posted by MiXels

Health Care Professionals.

That link was for conspiracy nuts.

Here's one for you.

[MiXels]

Originally Posted by HoustonHammer

That link was for conspiracy nuts.

Here's one for you.

I assumed as much. Of course, irony and sarcasm are often lost in translation on the internet.

[HoustonHammer]

Originally Posted by MiXels

I assumed as much. Of course, irony and sarcasm are often lost in translation on the internet.

Fair enough. I could have set it up better

[Martinello]

I'm also very skeptical of conspiracy theories. BASIL asked how athletes got the drug before it was released. That's a good question, but are sure they did have it prior to release? In the US, Epogen/Procrit was first approved by the FDA for sale in 1989.

No pharmaceutical company would use professional athletes as illegitimate guinea pigs for their new drugs. There is an entire continent called Africa full of human specimens where they don't give a damn about GxP, ethics committees or clinicaltrials.org.
HBOC (haemoglobin based oxygen carriers) have been tested extensively in poor Africans with sickle cell anaemia and thallessemia. Why bother with a couple of crazy cyclists when you can get good quality, controlled data???

[HoustonHammer]

Originally Posted by Martinello

No pharmaceutical company would use professional athletes as illegitimate guinea pigs for their new drugs. There is an entire continent called Africa full of human specimens where they don't give a damn about GxP, ethics committees or clinicaltrials.org.
HBOC (haemoglobin based oxygen carriers) have been tested extensively in poor Africans with sickle cell anaemia and thallessemia. Why bother with a couple of crazy cyclists when you can get good quality, controlled data???

Exactly. Why have a small inconsequential conspiracy theory when you can have a massive, gonzo, insane conspiracy theory? I mean, bigger is better, right?