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  #41  
Old 11-19-12, 18:02
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Magnus Magnus is offline
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So who would win a fight between a tiger and a lion?

Anyways, the movie is awesome.
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  #42  
Old 11-19-12, 20:13
silverrocket silverrocket is offline
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Yes of course more precise training techniques have existed for a long time (eg. Coppi and intervals), but I maintain that there have been a lot of advancements, and a mainstreaming of said advancements. With internet every cyclist, team, DS can access the latest information and many more scientists are studying athletic performance, and so there is a sort of arms race that every cyclist needs to keep up with. Of course we see this has influenced doping in cycling, but that need not be discussed.

Merckx famously quipped that his suggested training technique for young riders was simply "ride lots". These days we have doctors drawing blood at the top of hills to test lactic acid (my home town does this as an annual event, open to the public), supplements, altitude tents, and so on.

My argument is that this has leveled the playing field by minimizing some of the techniques riders might have formerly used to gain big advantages. Here I am drawing parallels with my other favourite sport, hockey, where the games has seen the same patterns in increasing parity.
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  #43  
Old 11-20-12, 18:10
Echoes Echoes is offline
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I've never believed in that quote. Either Merckx said that as a joke or he never said it.

In any case, in his era nobody trained strictly by riding a lot. That was 1930's training. 600km a day at a low pace. Coppi revolutionized this, riding on shorter distances at a higher speed (which was already Francis Pélissier's method but he was ahead of his time, Coppi really influenced later generations), also introducing some early form of interval training.

In Merckx's era, everybody would train on short distance at high speed and on intervals, plus you had power training programmes. Endurance training still existed but was not everything.


Technology has changed but the methods are basically the same.

In any case, you cannot say that training was informal back then. Caput clearly showed that the guys "did the job" seriously in the 70's compared to the 50's where the likes of Magni and Kübler were among the few who "did" it.

Last edited by Echoes; 11-20-12 at 18:25.
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  #44  
Old 11-20-12, 19:03
coinneach coinneach is offline
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Sean Kelly said on Eurosport commentary this year that the biggest difference between his time & now was the fitness of the WHOLE peleton.
In his day, lots were overweight and out of shape at the start of GT's, but now everyone arrives in or near peak condition.
As I remember him saying.
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  #45  
Old 11-20-12, 20:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coinneach View Post
Sean Kelly said on Eurosport commentary this year that the biggest difference between his time & now was the fitness of the WHOLE peleton.
In his day, lots were overweight and out of shape at the start of GT's, but now everyone arrives in or near peak condition.
As I remember him saying.
Boonen said something very similar not so long ago, but about the start of the season. And I doubt any big rider was starting the Tour out of shape during Sean Kelly's time. But yeah, of course the whole peloton is now fitter than 40 years ago.
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horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
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Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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  #46  
Old 11-20-12, 21:48
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
Boonen said something very similar not so long ago, but about the start of the season. And I doubt any big rider was starting the Tour out of shape during Sean Kelly's time. But yeah, of course the whole peloton is now fitter than 40 years ago.
well I'm sure sean kelly is lieing
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  #47  
Old 11-20-12, 22:14
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
well I'm sure sean kelly is lieing
A cyclist lying.



Ask Kelly about something clinic related and he'll either ignore you or lie.
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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  #48  
Old 11-20-12, 22:57
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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he's an idiot. but he isn't a liar
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  #49  
Old 11-20-12, 23:08
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
he's an idiot. but he isn't a liar
Uhm, I advise you to read a little story about the 1984 Paris-Brussel.

Ps: I never actually called him a liar, even though he is, but was pointing at the fact that maybe someone got the quote wrong.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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  #50  
Old 11-20-12, 23:16
coinneach coinneach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
Uhm, I advise you to read a little story about the 1984 Paris-Brussel.

Ps: I never actually called him a liar, even though he is, but was pointing at the fact that maybe someone got the quote wrong.
May have got quote wrong?
I think Boonen in Waloon would be as easy for me to understand as Kelly in English

Despite the above disparaging comments (well, we are not even in the Clinic) I find him an interesting and knowledgeable commentator, though hopeless on drug issues
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