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  #171  
Old 11-19-12, 20:08
winkybiker winkybiker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycle Chic View Post
....The light is very poor at this time of year....
Yes. So drivers should slow down and take more care so they don't run into things.

I had a well-meaning driver stop me last year and tell me that because the wind shield of their car was fogged and hard to see through that "I should take more care". I was speechless. I was literally unable to respond coherently.

Last edited by winkybiker; 11-19-12 at 20:11.
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  #172  
Old 11-19-12, 20:15
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Afrank Afrank is offline
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Originally Posted by Cycle Chic View Post
Over the last couple of weeks now I have become less and less sympathetic with cyclists getting knocked over by cars.

What is it with you men with wearing BLACK WINTER GEAR ????

Okay you have a light front and back but you're on a wing and a prayer if you think motorists can see those. Why wont you wear hi-viz jackets ??

Yeh they look crap but its only for winter.

I,m also curious as to what kit Bradley Wiggins had on when hit. I bet my bottom penny that he had on the Black Sky kit...no hi - viz stuff...probably a tiny light. Anyone know ?

So - no sympathy with cyclists wearing black kit. Even in Holland, where the motorist is liable for any incident involved with a cyclist, it would be hard to convict when the rider is dressed in black.
So if a cyclist gets hit by a car and just happened to be wearing a black kit then it is all their fault? The driver is not to blame at all?
A cyclist wearing a brightly colored kit can be hit just as easily as a cyclist wearing a black kit, especially when it is really dark out. When it is really dark like at night or very early in the morning the color of the kit doesn't make a whole lot of difference. The most important thing to riding in dark conditions is if what your wearing has reflective patches, your lighting, and that the cars look where they are going. Even if a cyclist is wearing a black kit, it is still the drivers responsibility to make sure they see them.
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  #173  
Old 11-19-12, 20:30
fatandfast fatandfast is offline
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I wear lots of black clothes because I feel they get warmer from whatever sun is out and that I get multiple wears without truly knowing how dirty they are. In winter I ride further in the road, use hand signals that I normally don't and take off and slow down a little differently than when I am totally comfortable and warm. I personally hate gloves and find I am a far worse bike rider w them and tights and a hat and 30 degrees outside. I think drivers habits change little but find that my being all wrapped up and slightly colder than normal contribute slower reactions from me. Driver are pretty consistently c0cks0ckers.
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  #174  
Old 11-19-12, 20:52
winkybiker winkybiker is offline
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Originally Posted by For The World View Post
......I live in Sydney and people just don't want you on the road....
One of the worst places in the world to ride. Motorists just hate cyclists.
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  #175  
Old 11-19-12, 21:01
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wilts rover wilts rover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycle Chic View Post
The point is it is hard for motorists to spot cyclists when they are wearing in effect camouflage gear. I have been driving recently and noticed how difficult it is in the winter to see cyclists. The light is very poor at this time of year so why would a cyclist not wear hi-viz clothing ?

You cant see lights from the side view either. We have to accept that we are nowhere close to having the Dutch driving laws. People riding in all black are asking for trouble.
Bit of a sweeping statement though - are black cars more difficult to see than white ones at night too? If I am popping half a mile down the road to Tesco then I probably wouldn't put ahigh viz on, but on my normal 12 mile commute along a major A road then I definately would, with two lights on the back, two on the front and helmet as well, I look like a b****y christmas tree - but still get cut up.

However if I go out for a evening mtb ride then I wouldn't put a high viz on, but would have plenty of lights - which I suspect Wiggins did.

In answer to the original question, I have been cycling for 40 years+ had some scary near misses, been off three times but still enjoy it too much not to do it. I would guess that once I begin to feel afraid then its time to stop because I wouldn't be enjoying it.
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  #176  
Old 11-20-12, 00:47
winkybiker winkybiker is offline
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Originally Posted by fatandfast View Post
Driver are pretty consistently c0cks0ckers.
Drivers are very predictable:

1) They will not stop at stop signs unless necessary to avoid a collision (or a cop car is sitting there)

2) They will break the speed limit at all times unless another vehicle is physically impeding them, or a corner has forced them to temporarily slow

3) They will never check behind before opening a car door

4) They will always underestimate the speed of a "serious" cyclist and therefore misjudge the interaction, placing the cyclist in additional danger

5) They will always vastly overrate the extent to which cyclists impede their journey

6) In spite of being too scared (or lazy) to cycle themselves, they will think nothing of driving in a manner likely to kill a cyclist. In fact, they will attribute the risk of murder to the behaviour of the cyclist/victim.
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  #177  
Old 11-20-12, 08:45
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Well good luck to you all in your black gear...if you continue hating motorists then you deserve all you get. Unfortunately it wont be in our lifetime that we see the Dutch Law here in the UK. If you dont light yourself up 'like a christmas tree' then you are gona get hit by one of those c***s*c*ers'.

Yes they are ignorant because 90% have never ridden a bike and do not realise how frightening it is to be on the UK roads - but you cant change that !!

If Wiggin's and Sutton's accidents dont change the law, nothing will. Oh unless Boris gets knocked off.
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  #178  
Old 11-20-12, 10:41
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Always makes me laugh to see people glorify Dutch cycling.

If you want it, start with behaving normally in traffic as a cyclist. The behavior of Youtube cyclists in the UK and the USA is a disgrace and I can't blame motorists for being annoyed with those self-righteous moral high ground people.

If you want cycling to be like in the Netherlands, start with always using a white front light and red rear light when it's (getting) dark, clearly visible and bright. Only then some laws come in effect (but you will still have to abide to red lights, right of way etc, something no single British or American cyclist seems to do).
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  #179  
Old 11-20-12, 10:42
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If I was afraid of riding my bike then, I'd never get anywhere! To be honest, I'm more worried about getting into a packed bus than riding my bike...
Besides; being afraid does not really make you more traffic-safe. It just makes you go AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!! The trick is to be attentive.
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  #180  
Old 11-20-12, 11:23
aphronesis aphronesis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnout View Post
Always makes me laugh to see people glorify Dutch cycling.

If you want it, start with behaving normally in traffic as a cyclist. The behavior of Youtube cyclists in the UK and the USA is a disgrace and I can't blame motorists for being annoyed with those self-righteous moral high ground people.

If you want cycling to be like in the Netherlands, start with always using a white front light and red rear light when it's (getting) dark, clearly visible and bright. Only then some laws come in effect (but you will still have to abide to red lights, right of way etc, something no single British or American cyclist seems to do).
Yes, but there's also the case to be made that certain lights should be discretionary. If you roll to a stop and aren't impeding cars or pedestrians, it's not clear why a cyclist shouldn't be able to then keep on going. To put it in absolutes is to recall the idiocy a couple of years ago when New York police were stopping cyclists at dawn in Central Park in order to ticket them for blowing lights on the loop.

That said, there are a lot of cyclist (young, but not exclusively) in the US and probably in the UK, who, if not required to be licensed, should be required to undergo basic training and demonstrate reasonable competence on the bike and to convey a certain level of awareness that they are in actual (as opposed to virtual) motion surrounded by carriages of much greater volume and speed. In the past six years I watched two of the white ghost bike riders get killed in situations that were clearly their fault. (Civic infrastructure in those spots could have been much improved, but it was still their doing in violating basic rules of the road without checking that they were clear). It remains the case that a majority of riders in New York are a hazard to themselves for one reason or another--and that the male commuters are hazards to each other once they get on dedicated paths. But many of them are still abiding by lights.

It's also the case that not all drivers are antagonistic as suggested upthread. Not in SF, not in Boulder, not in much of New York any more. Even in places like New Jersey, it varies greatly from township to township where if anything drivers are overly cautious and "politically correct" to the point of becoming a different type of hazard. This is its own problem in the UK.

Last edited by aphronesis; 11-20-12 at 11:39.
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