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  #11  
Old 11-20-12, 13:41
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one of the athletes is Kamilla Brandt, Vukicevic' current wife. I guess the whistleblowing ex-wife wasn't too happy about him banging one of his athletes while still married to her back then.

The other athlete is not yet named but I have enough indications to believe I know who she is.

The idea torkil presents saying it could be Vlad or Christina named in the e-mails is laughable. Although of course they may both have been on it since. But not at the age of 10.

What on earth was the basis for your thinking, torkil? Did you put any thought into it at all or just pick the most sensational story possible?

and also, like the hog points out, Ottey holds a Slovenian citizenship not Serbian. Some people are more careless with their facts than a UCI president
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  #12  
Old 11-20-12, 18:22
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
one of the athletes is Kamilla Brandt, Vukicevic' current wife. I guess the whistleblowing ex-wife wasn't too happy about him banging one of his athletes while still married to her back then.

The other athlete is not yet named but I have enough indications to believe I know who she is.

The idea torkil presents saying it could be Vlad or Christina named in the e-mails is laughable. Although of course they may both have been on it since. But not at the age of 10.

What on earth was the basis for your thinking, torkil? Did you put any thought into it at all or just pick the most sensational story possible?

and also, like the hog points out, Ottey holds a Slovenian citizenship not Serbian. Some people are more careless with their facts than a UCI president
I didnt realize the dates of the emails, Im sorry about that.
Still think both Vlad and Christina should be suspended for the time being.
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  #13  
Old 11-20-12, 22:40
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Originally Posted by torkil View Post
I didnt realize the dates of the emails, Im sorry about that.
Still think both Vlad and Christina should be suspended for the time being.
not really sure I can agree with that - just because their dad is under suspicion, should they get an official doping related suspension to their name?

that is unfair. My mate's dad does drugs, beats his wife and sells illegal alcohol, I still think it would be unfair to penalise my mate for that in any way.

Although let's play the "are Christina and Vlad on the good stuff" game, this is The Clinic after all and games are fun:


FOR
- Why wouldn't daddy coach give his two children, probably his two favourite athletes, his 'best' stuff?
- The story first surfaced a year ago, since about then Christina has been the most unsuccesful in her career. Did she get scared and get off the PED's?
- Javelin thrower Andreas Thorkildsen (2x olympic champion, world champion, euro champion) split up from girlfriend Christina in 2010 and has gone on to do quite badly compared to his usual standard. Has he been cut off from daddy Vuki's medicine?
- Did Thorkildsen split up with her because he realised she was on PED's and did not want anything to do with it?
- Vladimir had a brilliant season, including a Norwegian record - indication of doping.

AGAINST
- Why would Christina stop doping, while Vladimir keeps going?
- Christina must be on some poor PED's if she's doping, with the decline she's had this year.
- What parent would give drugs to his own children?
- How do you ask your children if they want to try PED's or break it to them they won't be good enough without it?
- Christina has always shown the talent to reach the level she's gone on to, from well before turning 16, which surely would be a the lowest thinkable cut off age for any PED dealing dad?

ANY MORE either for or against?
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  #14  
Old 11-20-12, 23:50
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FOR:
2003: Kamilla Brandt: Ten best results in Noway on 100 m. hurdles. She was probably using hgh and testosterone.

2004: 17 year old Christina Vukicevic has the ten best results in Norway on 100 m. hurdles. Kamilla Brandt had only the eleventh best time.

http://www.tv2.no/sport/ovrig/kona-t...n-3928425.html

2011: Christina Vukicevic was coached by Srdjan Djordjevic in Slovenia.

July 25 2012: WADA announced that a new test for human growth hormone would be used at the London Olympics.

July 30 2012: Christina Vukicevic announced that she would not be going to the Olympics.

AGAINST:

2004, Brandt might have stopped doping + CV might be a lot more talented, plus being grown enough to compete at senior level at 17, but not at 16.

2012: The season was no success. Maybe she wasn't doping with Djordjevic in Ljubljana in 2011? It had also been known for a while that WADA was preparing a new test for HGH for the London Olympics.
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  #15  
Old 11-21-12, 00:24
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Originally Posted by neineinei View Post
July 25 2012: WADA announced that a new test for human growth hormone would be used at the London Olympics.

July 30 2012: Christina Vukicevic announced that she would not be going to the Olympics.

I am sure this is just a coincidence.
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  #16  
Old 11-21-12, 00:40
torkil torkil is offline
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
not really sure I can agree with that - just because their dad is under suspicion, should they get an official doping related suspension to their name?

that is unfair. My mate's dad does drugs, beats his wife and sells illegal alcohol, I still think it would be unfair to penalise my mate for that in any way.

Although let's play the "are Christina and Vlad on the good stuff" game, this is The Clinic after all and games are fun:
Their coach has basically been caught cheating, and has been their coach all their life. I dont care if he is their dad or not? Any athlete that has been trained by someone for a long time who has administered doping for any athlete should suspended untill cleared.

Quote:

FOR
- Why wouldn't daddy coach give his two children, probably his two favourite athletes, his 'best' stuff?
- The story first surfaced a year ago, since about then Christina has been the most unsuccesful in her career. Did she get scared and get off the PED's?
- Javelin thrower Andreas Thorkildsen (2x olympic champion, world champion, euro champion) split up from girlfriend Christina in 2010 and has gone on to do quite badly compared to his usual standard. Has he been cut off from daddy Vuki's medicine?
- Did Thorkildsen split up with her because he realised she was on PED's and did not want anything to do with it?
- Vladimir had a brilliant season, including a Norwegian record - indication of doping.

AGAINST
- Why would Christina stop doping, while Vladimir keeps going?
- Christina must be on some poor PED's if she's doping, with the decline she's had this year.
- What parent would give drugs to his own children?
- How do you ask your children if they want to try PED's or break it to them they won't be good enough without it?
- Christina has always shown the talent to reach the level she's gone on to, from well before turning 16, which surely would be a the lowest thinkable cut off age for any PED dealing dad?

ANY MORE either for or against?
Based on those emails it certainly doesnt look like Petar had any moral qualms with drugs, and Im not sure if the health concerns would be that big?

Christina was injured wasn't she? What makes you think she stopped doping?
I guess it would acutally be easier to convince your kids to dope, considering you probably have a big sway on their decisionmaking. Read Tylers book for the psychology of doping, Id go for "Everyone else uses it, you dont stand a chance without it!"
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  #17  
Old 11-21-12, 08:38
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
I am sure this is just a coincidence.
but you clearly have about 0,01 % insight on the topic. I suggest you take your sarcasm somewhere else.

She'd never end up getting tested there anyway, considering how she was performing
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  #18  
Old 11-21-12, 08:47
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Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
but you clearly have about 0,01 % insight on the topic. I suggest you take your sarcasm somewhere else.
Huh ?
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  #19  
Old 11-21-12, 08:47
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Originally Posted by torkil View Post
Their coach has basically been caught cheating, and has been their coach all their life. I dont care if he is their dad or not? Any athlete that has been trained by someone for a long time who has administered doping for any athlete should suspended untill cleared.
but he hasn't been sanctioned yet, and i disagree anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torkil View Post
Based on those emails it certainly doesnt look like Petar had any moral qualms with drugs, and Im not sure if the health concerns would be that big?
well, the health concerns aren't that big if you give your 12-y-o a bottle of beer and some cannabis to to smoke either, but not many do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torkil View Post
Christina was injured wasn't she? What makes you think she stopped doping?
chill out fella, I was just listing any reason I could think of both for and against her doping. Please try to keep up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torkil View Post
I guess it would acutally be easier to convince your kids to dope, considering you probably have a big sway on their decisionmaking.
If you work on their behaviour patterns with this in mind from when they're at a young age, then surely. But suddenly turning around when they're 15-16-17 and tell them 'oi you talentless, spotty, weak wannabe athlete, get on the testo and HGH now, you'll be nothing without it' - not as easy, especially not for yourself. But - and I would like to emphasise this - I don't really know how it would work in this case as everyone is different and also I have no knowledge of trying to talk people into doping. I guess neither do you, but you are dead confident anyway.



Quote:
Originally Posted by torkil View Post
Read Tylers book for the psychology of doping, Id go for "Everyone else uses it, you dont stand a chance without it!"

Last edited by workingclasshero; 11-21-12 at 08:49.
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  #20  
Old 11-21-12, 21:19
torkil torkil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
but he hasn't been sanctioned yet, and i disagree anyway.
Fair enough

Quote:
well, the health concerns aren't that big if you give your 12-y-o a bottle of beer and some cannabis to to smoke either, but not many do that.

chill out fella, I was just listing any reason I could think of both for and against her doping. Please try to keep up.
Sorry if I come over as angry, that's not the intention Those were real questions, I wasn't sure if she was injured or not.

Quote:
If you work on their behaviour patterns with this in mind from when they're at a young age, then surely. But suddenly turning around when they're 15-16-17 and tell them 'oi you talentless, spotty, weak wannabe athlete, get on the testo and HGH now, you'll be nothing without it' - not as easy, especially not for yourself. But - and I would like to emphasise this - I don't really know how it would work in this case as everyone is different and also I have no knowledge of trying to talk people into doping. I guess neither do you, but you are dead confident anyway.
Im not confident, I wrote "I guess" for a reason, it's a guess.
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