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  #8861  
Old 11-21-12, 00:54
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Originally Posted by JimmyFingers View Post
There was a memo? I never get those. I don't even know what they look like
it was 200 pages with a 1000 page appendix
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  #8862  
Old 11-21-12, 01:23
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it was 200 pages with a 1000 page appendix
If it's not a Brit thing Jimmy can defend he's not interested ;-)
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  #8863  
Old 11-21-12, 02:04
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Originally Posted by Darryl Webster View Post
There are many people that know the truth regards BC/ Sky. Several X WCPP riders and an X coach have told me things that I initially felt lacked credibility..but when they come independently of each other that doubt diminishes.
Unfortunately, and rather like echoes of the long history of the Armstrong saga most work within cycling and have much to lose by going public with there knowledge and , without concrete evidence to support there claims many fear being dragged into courts.
My gut feeling is BC/ Sky will, eventually, crack under the strain of the whispering and truth will out like the proverbial dam bursting.
BC/ Sky have made more enemies than most people realise.
just check Vinnicombes physique. Best kilo rider of his era. Check the Hoy physique when the kilo is still an olympic event. Drugs get you knighthoods.
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  #8864  
Old 11-21-12, 03:29
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But here's the problem with the conflict of interests and the blurring of the lines. To the layman in the street, where does British Cycling stop and Team Sky begin? Obviously the foreign riders are not part of British Cycling, but Kennaugh, Thomas, Wiggins et al are very much part of British Cycling. Chris Froome will be linked to it in the public's eye because of his Olympic medal. If there is doping at Team Sky, Dave Brailsford will be asked about it. He is the face of British Cycling's management as well, so any doping case at Team Sky reflects on him, and by proxy then is projected down onto British Cycling as a whole. If they can satisfactorily limit the rot so that it's "dirty Sky, no problem at BC" then Brailsford will still be caught up in it, because it will have gone on under his watch. And if Brailsford is caught up in it, then it will call into question everything achieved under him - including a decade of track cycling successes.
took what, 15 years for USPS doping to come out. And if Armstrong never came back, it would only have been knowledge for a very few like the 12 on the clinic.
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  #8865  
Old 11-21-12, 06:44
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took what, 15 years for USPS doping to come out. And if Armstrong never came back, it would only have been knowledge for a very few like the 12 on the clinic.

If what I have heard Vinnicombe allege in the past comes out, the whole BC program would be in the spotlight. Again it all comes down to here say though and I'm not sure if he's a great witness. Combine that with the Sky setup, there are some dubious people involved in that and the entire set up looks questionable. I'm not sure how widely knows the whole story is and it's in no ones best interests to come forward. Unless they want out of the sport completely.
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  #8866  
Old 11-21-12, 08:26
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Originally Posted by Darryl Webster View Post
There are many people that know the truth regards BC/ Sky. Several X WCPP riders and an X coach have told me things that I initially felt lacked credibility..but when they come independently of each other that doubt diminishes.
Unfortunately, and rather like echoes of the long history of the Armstrong saga most work within cycling and have much to lose by going public with there knowledge and , without concrete evidence to support there claims many fear being dragged into courts.
My gut feeling is BC/ Sky will, eventually, crack under the strain of the whispering and truth will out like the proverbial dam bursting.
BC/ Sky have made more enemies than most people realise.
Come on Darryl; you read the Clinic....there are load of enemies in cycling!
But that's the trouble with "whispering", its not evidence. Its easy to waive a list of names in front of the Prime Minister, but that doesn't make it right.
Sky/ News International have been through a HUGE damage limitation exercise with phone hacking: they'll spare no resources to avoid that again.
We seem to be fixated by the "echoes of the long history of the Armstrong saga". The real lesson from Armstrong is that the truth will out eventually, and its not worth the personal or commercial risk.
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  #8867  
Old 11-21-12, 08:49
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Originally Posted by bobbins View Post
If what I have heard Vinnicombe allege in the past comes out, the whole BC program would be in the spotlight. Again it all comes down to here say though and I'm not sure if he's a great witness. Combine that with the Sky setup, there are some dubious people involved in that and the entire set up looks questionable. I'm not sure how widely knows the whole story is and it's in no ones best interests to come forward. Unless they want out of the sport completely.
Erm, would it not be a bigger issue for Australia Cycling, which is already undergoing some kind of review?

I know there are Aussies involved in BC abd Sky, but AFAIK Shane Sutton remained in the UK after his racing career, going on to a role with Welsh Cycling, and has not been involved with Vinnicombe.

Has anyone "joined the dots" yet?
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  #8868  
Old 11-21-12, 09:15
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took what, 15 years for USPS doping to come out. And if Armstrong never came back, it would only have been knowledge for a very few like the 12 on the clinic.
I think the times have changed. Yes 12 clinic die-hards 15 years ago, but many dozens, hundreds and thousands reading, spreading the message, etc as of late. Because of people taking the initiative, not longer relying on traditional media, but getting closer to the truth and/or rumor mill themselves, via social media.

Case in point, the 30 or so de-identified people in USADA affidavits. Deciphered here in 2 days flat. Resulting in various riders/managers retiring early. Likewise Darrel's comments, accessible and read by far more people than ever before.

It's very different now, and traditional media as well as team managers and sports administrators are going to have to deal with accountability in ways very different than before. The Team Sky doping discussion is again a classic example. The PR spin of the past doesn't work any longer. Nor do "feel good" messages by high profile riders like Cadel. People are going to expect a closer true story, and high profile sports people, as well as business people, politicians, etc, are going to have to be more accountable. Or the public pressure will force them out. This is only the early days of social media, but you can see how quickly and powerfully it's happening in cycling.
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  #8869  
Old 11-21-12, 09:20
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Originally Posted by Avoriaz View Post
Erm, would it not be a bigger issue for Australia Cycling, which is already undergoing some kind of review?

I know there are Aussies involved in BC abd Sky, but AFAIK Shane Sutton remained in the UK after his racing career, going on to a role with Welsh Cycling, and has not been involved with Vinnicombe.

Has anyone "joined the dots" yet?
It doesn't involve an Aussie and is a bigger deal for BC than CA. Although by the sounds of it CA have plenty of skeletons.
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  #8870  
Old 11-21-12, 09:21
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But that's the trouble with "whispering", its not evidence.
Reliable eye witness accounts are evidence. We've done this to death, as has Travis Tygart.

Darrel's earlier accounts should be followed through/investigated and concluded publicly by the BC authorities. They are not "whispers". Nor is he just "anyone with a hunch", he's an untainted ex pro with impressive palmares and (on the surface at least) no axe to grind, other than striving for a clean sport.
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