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  #51  
Old 11-20-12, 23:20
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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Originally Posted by coinneach View Post
May have got quote wrong?
I think Boonen in Waloon would be as easy for me to understand as Kelly in English

Despite the above disparaging comments (well, we are not even in the Clinic) I find him an interesting and knowledgeable commentator, though hopeless on drug issues
Fair enough.

It's definitely true that cyclists in the 70s and 80s didn't train much during the winter. In fact, Hinault barely ever trained during the winter(if ever). But to say they weren't even in shape for the start of a GT... That I doubt very much. Contador doesn't train a lot during the winter either, he just gets in shape very fast as we saw at San Luis this year. Overweight yet won 2 mountain stages.
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
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Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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  #52  
Old 11-21-12, 04:12
silverrocket silverrocket is offline
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I've never believed in that quote. Either Merckx said that as a joke or he never said it.

In any case, in his era nobody trained strictly by riding a lot. That was 1930's training. 600km a day at a low pace. Coppi revolutionized this, riding on shorter distances at a higher speed (which was already Francis Pélissier's method but he was ahead of his time, Coppi really influenced later generations), also introducing some early form of interval training.

In Merckx's era, everybody would train on short distance at high speed and on intervals, plus you had power training programmes. Endurance training still existed but was not everything.


Technology has changed but the methods are basically the same.

In any case, you cannot say that training was informal back then. Caput clearly showed that the guys "did the job" seriously in the 70's compared to the 50's where the likes of Magni and Kübler were among the few who "did" it.
Technology has changed the methods. Nobody had heart rate monitors, nevermind power meters, in Merckx's time, for example.

Also the 60s-70s marked a transition in training techniques. Some still were doing the "ride lots", some only trained by racing lots, while some subscribed to the more precise training programs. De Vlaminck said his training goal was simply to ride more than anybody else, with 400km long training rides.
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  #53  
Old 11-21-12, 12:18
kurtinsc kurtinsc is offline
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
How many now? Goss, Gerrans and O'Grady... Nothing to show off about. Considering 2 of those won MSR and the other was from a breakaway.

Does the US have a real presence now? They have Phinney and that's about it anymore these days.
Tejay Van Garderen did just win the white jersey at the tour (5th overall), as well as 5th at Paris-Nice. Andrew Talansky finished second at the Tour of Romandie and 7th in the Vuelta. Peter Stetina hasn't had a great result yet, but finished 21st at the Giro this past year. Not sure if Farrar can get back to competing in mass sprints or morph into a rider who can compete in the cobbled races, but he's been a solid sprinter in the recent past.

The US presence isn't as big as it was under the group of guys now being ushered out of the sport, but it's as big or bigger then any other time.
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  #54  
Old 11-21-12, 16:31
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ultimobici ultimobici is offline
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Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post
Again, two things happened simultaneously.
1. Shimano figured out index shifting.
2. Shimano's rear mech meaningfully improved shifting under all conditions.

Shortly after Shimano's solution, there were other index shifting solutions but none as good as Shimano's because Shimano figured out a better rear mech.



Because the Pro Peloton was still riding French and Italian transmissions. Meanwhile Shimano was innovating, not a big player at all in Pro bicycle stuff and stuck on the low-end of bike culture/industry. Index shifting and the mountain bike group changed that. Sometime after, they had the budget to spend on outfitting a Pro Team., etc.
i think you have it a little mixed up. Shimano simply waited for the patent on Suntour's slant-parallel derailleur design to lapse, then copied it. Shimano has, up until very recently, farmed ideas from the dim & distant past and used modern materials technology to made them work.

Cassette hubs - name esxapes me 1930s
Dual Pivot brakes - Universal 1930s
2 piece cranks - Bullseye late 80s
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  #55  
Old 11-21-12, 18:59
Echoes Echoes is online now
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Originally Posted by coinneach View Post
In his day, lots were overweight and out of shape at the start of GT's, but now everyone arrives in or near peak condition.
As I remember him saying.
GT's are not everything in cycling.

I see plenty of riders overweight in any race, today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverrocket
Also the 60s-70s marked a transition in training techniques. Some still were doing the "ride lots", some only trained by racing lots, while some subscribed to the more precise training programs. De Vlaminck said his training goal was simply to ride more than anybody else, with 400km long training rides.
De Vlaeminck never said that.

The transition is in the 40's/50's when Coppi came up. Then you had every year more riders training with these "more precise training programmes".
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  #56  
Old 11-21-12, 20:12
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
GT's are not everything in cycling.

I see plenty of riders overweight in any race, today.



De Vlaeminck never said that.

The transition is in the 40's/50's when Coppi came up. Then you had every year more riders training with these "more precise training programmes".
yes they are. except in belgium

and pls name me overweight riders in grand tours nowdays, save a very few returning from injuries.
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  #57  
Old 11-21-12, 21:30
silverrocket silverrocket is offline
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Originally Posted by Echoes View Post

De Vlaeminck never said that.
I was paraphrasing, here's a quote explaining why he put in such huge mileage:

“It was important for me to know that I was doing more than the others.”
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  #58  
Old 11-21-12, 22:02
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
yes they are. except in belgium

and pls name me overweight riders in grand tours nowdays, save a very few returning from injuries.
Lol, might as well say only the Tour matters then because no one outside real cycling fans and Italy gives a damn about the Giro and the same goes for the Vuelta. Well, a lot of Spaniards don't even care about the Vuelta.

Cavendish has started GTs while being chubby.

Actually, having seen American cycling fans with my own eyes: they don't care about the Giro, they don't care about the Vuelta. They only care for two races: the Tour and Paris-Roubaix.

Anyway what really changed in cycling after the 70s is doping... Read up on Francesco Conconi and Francesco Moser's Hour record of 1994(!).
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week

Last edited by El Pistolero; 11-21-12 at 22:08.
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  #59  
Old 11-21-12, 22:53
coinneach coinneach is offline
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post

Anyway what really changed in cycling after the 70s is doping... Read up on Francesco Conconi and Francesco Moser's Hour record of 1994(!).
Well doping went on LONG before the 70s. The biggest doping change was EPO/Blood, (in the 90's-00) which, contrary to the size discussion above, actually allowed big men to get up mountains like they were skinny climbers, without even getting out of the saddle.
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  #60  
Old 11-21-12, 23:13
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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Originally Posted by coinneach View Post
Well doping went on LONG before the 70s. The biggest doping change was EPO/Blood, (in the 90's-00) which, contrary to the size discussion above, actually allowed big men to get up mountains like they were skinny climbers, without even getting out of the saddle.
Blood doping happened before, so did EPO. Conconi actually introduced EPO into this sport.
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Originally Posted by Ryo Hazuki View Post
horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch
Goss will woop boonens candy ass in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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