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  #8891  
Old 11-21-12, 15:20
thehog thehog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebandit View Post
what good? team sky are not in the dogooding business but to win races

if they cheat they must be 'popped'

i called bs to your claims and you answer with a riddle
100s of tests all of them clean. What else can be done? How do you prove a negative?

In and out competition. What more can they do?
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  #8892  
Old 11-21-12, 16:48
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Originally Posted by thehog View Post
Thereís not a shred of physical evidence. Until then itís just hearsay. Show me a positive test then weíre talking but until then itís just bitterness and jealously.
Eyewitness evidence is not Hearsay - that's the whole point of it.

I saw X dope, X told me he doped, I saw Dr Y arrive - eye witness direct evidence.

Someone once told me something about X, i've heard rumours about Y - hearsay

The first is high quality evidence - see Hincapie, Vaughters, CVV, Zubriskie

The latter is two tonne of bullsh*t - see fair amount of cynic...sorry, meant Clinic, regulars.

Eyewitness statements are direct evidence, not hearsay.

Blood profiling is also evidence
Test controls are evidence
Financial records are evidence

Hearsay isn't evidence.
Rumour isn't evidence.

Maybe time some of those who get annoyed at the "500 tests, never failed" line, also realise the difference between evidence and hearsay rumour.

Hint; it's nothing to do with whether it's physical or not. complete red herring.
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  #8893  
Old 11-21-12, 16:50
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red_flanders red_flanders is offline
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I think you're missing the sarcasm in the Hog's posts.
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  #8894  
Old 11-21-12, 16:59
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Originally Posted by red_flanders View Post
I think you're missing the sarcasm in the Hog's posts.
Trust me, I'm not.
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  #8895  
Old 11-21-12, 17:21
andy1234 andy1234 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red_flanders View Post
I think you're missing the sarcasm in the Hog's posts.
No. He nailed it.
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  #8896  
Old 11-21-12, 18:57
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Libertine Seguros Libertine Seguros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
Eyewitness evidence is not Hearsay - that's the whole point of it.

I saw X dope, X told me he doped, I saw Dr Y arrive - eye witness direct evidence.

Someone once told me something about X, i've heard rumours about Y - hearsay

The first is high quality evidence - see Hincapie, Vaughters, CVV, Zubriskie

The latter is two tonne of bullsh*t - see fair amount of cynic...sorry, meant Clinic, regulars.

Eyewitness statements are direct evidence, not hearsay.

Blood profiling is also evidence
Test controls are evidence
Financial records are evidence

Hearsay isn't evidence.
Rumour isn't evidence.

Maybe time some of those who get annoyed at the "500 tests, never failed" line, also realise the difference between evidence and hearsay rumour.

Hint; it's nothing to do with whether it's physical or not. complete red herring.
So you agree that there is evidence Mick Rogers should not pass the Team Sky 'Zero Tolerance' test and should be jettisoned like the expendable DSes were?
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  #8897  
Old 11-21-12, 19:35
Krebs cycle Krebs cycle is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
Yes of course. Because being up and down is a sure sign of doping, whereas dominating multi-stage races from February to July after being a nobody autobuser in said races is quite plainly an indication of sparkling cleanliness.

This is the same argument David Millar used in his infinite wisdom of declaring Contador clean as his performances were so consistent. Clenbutador!

Another stunning display of PhD sciency stuff. Chapeau, Krebs Cycle.
*yawn* yet another broken down record that has been debunked 1000 times over...

track to road: training changes = road performance improves (whoa, you mean that training affects performance? no way!!!)
domestique to GC contender: GC placing improves (wow who would've thought?)
lose weight = w/kg goes up (amazing!)
lose weight = w/CdA maybe goes down, maybe not. Maybe goes down but the difference is made up for by improved %LT as a result of surprise surprise, changes to training. Maybe it did go down but since at 53kph you need BIG changes in power to make SMALL changes in velocity, it doesn't have much of an effect compared to say climbing performance where SMALL changes in w/kg make BIG changes to climbing speed.

yeah totally inexplicable fringe science there hey?

The simple truth is that the physiology which enables an individual to produce somewhere around 7 w/kg for 4-5min (especially or perhaps even only... if a higher than average amount of that power is derived from aerobic sources as opposed to anaerobic) can be used to produce around 6.2 W/kg at FTP. (edit: it is not easy to do of course though). I know this because I witnessed it personally many years ago when Cadel Evans used to get tested at the AIS. All I am saying is that it is possible, not that I believe with 100% certainty that Wiggins is clean. You are the one who stubbornly refuses to even accept this possibility and as a result you dispute every piece of scientific literature that I post and instead carry on with a bunch of ignorant and uneducated mumbo jumbo day after day in order to justify your opinion.

Last edited by Krebs cycle; 11-21-12 at 21:01.
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  #8898  
Old 11-21-12, 19:40
orbeas orbeas is offline
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I see Sky/BC have shipped Shane Sutton out of the country back to Aus.
Away from the awkward british press coverage ???
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  #8899  
Old 11-21-12, 19:46
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Libertine Seguros Libertine Seguros is offline
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More likely to be with his family after the trauma of the crash.
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  #8900  
Old 11-21-12, 19:54
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Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orbeas View Post
I see Sky/BC have shipped Shane Sutton out of the country back to Aus.
Away from the awkward british press coverage ???
He has gone with all the GB track sprinters, plus Laura Trott and Dani King, for a month's warm weather training in Perth.
Before anybody draws another wrong conclusion, this has been on the schedule for a number of months.
That is an actual bit of inside info, albeit small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
More likely to be with his family after the trauma of the crash.
No doubt he will take the opportunity.
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Last edited by Mellow Velo; 11-21-12 at 19:59.
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