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  #31  
Old 11-21-12, 09:40
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Originally Posted by peterst6906 View Post
No of course not.

They did it on the pitch, training 6 hours a day. What else could it be?
Apropos of not much, it should be pointed out the game was amateur up to 1996, and only fully professional after 2000. The body shape differences are the result of full time professional training along with team based but personalised training programs supervised by sports scientists ans physiology experts.

This is completely independent to doping practices.
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  #32  
Old 11-21-12, 09:45
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No of course not.

They did it on the pitch, training 6 hours a day. What else could it be?
Must be that 6 hour training routine which gives these 15-20 year olds in the junior and development programs (as well as school and suburban gyms) the severe back acne that we see when they so keenly show off their torso's.
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  #33  
Old 11-21-12, 10:19
del1962 del1962 is offline
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Must be that 6 hour training routine which gives these 15-20 year olds in the junior and development programs (as well as school and suburban gyms) the severe back acne that we see when they so keenly show off their torso's.
Gym's now are far more common than in the 70s/80s, never had one in the school I attended but they are fairly comon now, you seem like someone who wants to make insinuations based on nothing more than your own prejudices or just a wind up merchant, which of these two categories fits you best,
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  #34  
Old 11-21-12, 10:24
coinneach coinneach is offline
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Originally Posted by peterst6906 View Post
No of course not.

They did it on the pitch, training 6 hours a day. What else could it be?
The gym?

Actually, only half joking...its the best way to build muscle mass, and use of by rugby players when they went pro and could devote themselves to training 24/7 went up massively
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  #35  
Old 11-21-12, 10:30
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Gym's now are far more common than in the 70s/80s, never had one in the school I attended but they are fairly comon now, you seem like someone who wants to make insinuations based on nothing more than your own prejudices or just a wind up merchant, which of these two categories fits you best,
Everyone deserves to have an opinion, but if you chose personal innuendos or attacks then please be specific. Happy to hear specifics.

I am also a 1962 vintage, assume from your nickname you are. My son is 16, and keenly into the gym scene. We have a decent weight bench at home, which I rarely use, prefer the aerobic stuff myself. I have seen gyms on the inside for many years, and I am in touch with kids and adolescents about what goes on there. Inside gyms and on the web. Zyzz ring a bell? And I have a bit of "pharmaceutical" know how also. Including the interface with sport.

So let me know what specifically you'd like to discuss more. Can PM also if you like.
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  #36  
Old 11-21-12, 10:37
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OK, at last a sport I know something about

The marginal gains England need are learning to pass, catch, tackle and kick
+10000000 from this Englishman
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  #37  
Old 11-22-12, 09:25
Mongol_Waaijer Mongol_Waaijer is offline
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Originally Posted by King Of The Wolds View Post
The idea that the England coaching and management set up, created a structure of PED use for players that weren't even assets owned by them and with whom they had contact with for a relatively short period of time during the rugby calendar, is completely laughable, even by Clinic standards.

Some questions:-

Did the clubs, who owned the players, know about this?
If not, did each of the players willingly put their contracts at risk and each and every one not tell their employers what was happening?
If so, did the clubs happily go along with this, in the knowledge that the use of their prime assets was being put at risk by another party?
Or are all the clubs at it and, if so, why is Sir Clive under the spotlight particularly here?
If all the clubs are it, why do you assume that none of the other nations were at it (which you seem to refer to by suggesting that England stole a march on the other nations)?
Didn't something like this happen in cycling?

A few points:

what if the international players were given supplements to take without their clubs knowledge? If the RFU scientists were 100% sure they weren't going to test positive (or they were 'protected') why would this be an issue?

What if these products were only taken during international training camps and during the time the players spent together with the national set up?

what if players were responsible for their own program, independent of club and country, but with the tacit approval of one or both?

Maybe lots of nations are / were doing it, but England did it best?

what if the testing procedure is all about not catching the right people for the right products?
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  #38  
Old 11-22-12, 09:31
del1962 del1962 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mongol_Waaijer View Post
Didn't something like this happen in cycling?

A few points:

what if the international players were given supplements to take without their clubs knowledge? If the RFU scientists were 100% sure they weren't going to test positive (or they were 'protected') why would this be an issue?

What if these products were only taken during international training camps and during the time the players spent together with the national set up?

what if players were responsible for their own program, independent of club and country, but with the tacit approval of one or both?

Maybe lots of nations are / were doing it, but England did it best?

what if the testing procedure is all about not catching the right people for the right products?
If you want to discuss doping in Rugby I suggest you do it on a broader basis rather than coming across as some embittered anti-English fool. You have no evidence that English rugby is any way more involved in doping than rugby in genreral.
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  #39  
Old 11-22-12, 11:25
Mongol_Waaijer Mongol_Waaijer is offline
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Originally Posted by del1962 View Post
If you want to discuss doping in Rugby I suggest you do it on a broader basis rather than coming across as some embittered anti-English fool. You have no evidence that English rugby is any way more involved in doping than rugby in genreral.
In my posts here I have also expressed concerns about NZ and SA.

I would also like to add that there have been several positive tests in the French club competition.
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  #40  
Old 11-22-12, 12:06
coinneach coinneach is offline
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Originally Posted by Mongol_Waaijer View Post
Didn't something like this happen in cycling?

A few points:

what if the international players were given supplements to take without their clubs knowledge? If the RFU scientists were 100% sure they weren't going to test positive (or they were 'protected') why would this be an issue?

What if these products were only taken during international training camps and during the time the players spent together with the national set up?

what if players were responsible for their own program, independent of club and country, but with the tacit approval of one or both?

Maybe lots of nations are / were doing it, but England did it best?

what if the testing procedure is all about not catching the right people for the right products?
As a big fan of British Sport, I think you've got some fair points there; equally valid in Rugby & Cycling

I have often worried about "suppliments/right products", they may be legal just now BUT BUT BUT.....

All I can say to reassure you is there's a big difference in mentalities in the sports & organisations: Rugby has never had a big drug scandal, cycling's had loads. British Cycling comes out of the Olympic track programme: they are a really tight organisation founded on clean sport. IMHPO british cycling is officially clean.

When rugby went pro, there was much less /no focus on ethical issues. I know the parents of one international rugby union player worried about their son taking stuff: they asked him, and he denied it. Who knows??
The team that showed the biggest leap in fitness, for whatever reason, at last RWC I think was Wales, and its not doing them much good now!
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