Lance Armstrong Cheated to Win. Why is that Wrong? - Reason Magazine - Page 6 - Cyclingnews Forum

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  #51  
Old 11-22-12, 05:43
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http://theconversation.edu.au/the-la...cheating-10183
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see lance tell kik and anna we can do it too
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  #52  
Old 11-22-12, 05:46
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Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
I don't look at them like children. I look at them like men who are part of a culture that treats them like children. That paternalistic culture is disgusting--and it leads to people like Zabriskie getting paid ONLY $15,000 per year by people like Bruyneel. Sometimes, I can't help it, I'm revolted. Those sheep-men need to grow a pair and ORGANIZE!

The system is hopelessly corrupt. The "clean" riders promote the corrupt culture just like the "dirty" riders promote the corrupt culture. Every race is a corrupt joke--on both the cheaters and the clean riders.

Not that there's anything wrong with that . . .
I dont know if I believe Zabriskie. Perhaps he did not have that accident with his bag falling like Decanio said, but on the level of believability, his story stands with Millar and Vaughters, and even Decanio starts looking credible!

so he was in tears when threatened to get with the program? Come on. believability richter scale? It aint san andreas
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  #53  
Old 11-22-12, 12:09
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I will quote my father
"If you win your a winner!
If you loose your a loser,
If you cheat and win and don't get caught your a winner,
If you get caught your a loser! What are you going to do!!"

He is an A-hole!

I think this mind set is very related to this thread because "Why is that Wrong?"
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  #54  
Old 11-22-12, 14:57
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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Originally Posted by MarkvW View Post
There are also the unwritten rules of the peloton. And the fact is that those unwritten rules also exist for a reason. The unwritten rules allow pretty much any kind of doping--so long as you don't get caught.

An "index of what is considered right or fair" is only needed to mollify sponsors or fans. Vino and Kolobdnev certainly had their own distinct understanding of what is right and fair! And Lance, snitching off other dopers? Only Whitey Bulger (and Hein Verbruggen) would think that was fair!

Pro cycling is an enjoyable joke. The races are ALWAYS corrupt, because they are ALWAYS debased by a large proportion of doped riders. And it has ALWAYS been that way.

The written rules of the UCI are just hints to the real rules that control the actual behavior of the actors in the filthy drama of pro cycling.
And why do these 'unwritten rules' exist??
Because they have broken the actual rules.
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  #55  
Old 11-22-12, 15:15
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I knew the article was utter claptrap, when I read this:

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If that many cyclists were doping, it could be argued that Le Tour, across the Armstrong era – 1999 to 2005 – was, to some extent, being raced on a level playing field.
Level playing field my ****. First of all there was a Hct cutoff at 50%, so someone, who had 42% naturally could gain a much higher boost than someone, who had 46% and there are more than one cases where people actually couldn't use EPO, because their bodies reacted adversely (Zabel and Swart come to mind). It's a ridiculous idea
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  #56  
Old 11-22-12, 16:55
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Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
You have to realize reason.com is THE site for Ayn Rand nutters. Considering how one's decisions affect other people is not part of the ideology. It is a heresy.

“There are two novels that can transform a bookish 14-year-kld’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish daydream that can lead to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood in which large chunks of the day are spent inventing ways to make real life more like a fantasy novel. The other is a book about orcs.”
OUCH! Now, in my book, calling somebody a Rand nutter is a REAL insult. I've never understood exactly why people think she is philosophical, and had some basic grasp of truth, when Louis L'Amour probably had more common sense in his characters than ANYthing in Rand! Yeesh. The woman fled the Russian communists, and was off the other end because of it. Thanks for the laugh!
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  #57  
Old 11-22-12, 17:03
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
Don't sigh. This piece by Nick Gilespie makes some valid points. Especially the last one.
. . .
<Sigh>. No good points - just another rehash of "Jeez, Lance doped and cheated, so it is ok to lie and dope and cheat!"

Yeah - the last point - that Lance was an a-hole right through might be a good point, but considering the rest of it, I think it is just camouflage.

To me, the unfortunate side of all this is that there are a lot of people thinking this way. Which is, unfortunate.
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  #58  
Old 11-22-12, 17:04
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Originally Posted by Dr. Maserati View Post
And why do these 'unwritten rules' exist??
Because they have broken the actual rules.
The unwritten rules exist because the written rules are not enforced. They are relatively meaningless. As several riders have said, the antidoping rules are no more than an IQ test.
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  #59  
Old 11-22-12, 17:21
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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The unwritten rules exist because the written rules are not enforced. They are relatively meaningless. As several riders have said, the antidoping rules are no more than an IQ test.
Again, this makes little sense.
If what you said was true, then the 'unwritten' rules would be there to to enforce compliance because the actual rules are not enforced.
As I said, the unwritten rules are there because they break the actual rules.
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  #60  
Old 11-22-12, 18:42
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This thread is slipping into the abyss. If we introduce shades of grey into what must be a black or white definition, we tacitly support doping with a weak definition of what it is or is not.

If athletes are willing to transfuse blood, inject chemicals, fly around in choppers and jets to avoid OOC testing, the problem is not with the rules, its with the people and culture, and consequences.

Making doping and enabling doping criminal (it is in some countries already), severe bans, salary cap for returning riders......we can go on and on but until the penalties are so severe that being caught once really hurts, twice your career ends.......we are just sitting in a circle.
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