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  #8931  
Old 11-22-12, 09:22
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Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
For me the whole lot of tainted ones can go. Start with a clean slate. Plenty of untainted riders out there, just that we may not yet know of them. I'm also comfortable with an amnesty concept. It's about how the stakeholders (incl. sponsors) want the sport to go forward. And that's why I like the concept of 'clean' declarations by riders and teams. But it needs to be backed up with transparency... on the past, on the bloods, on the UCI process, etc etc. And that's what is holding this back. Via UCI leadership. Just not there.
+1 quality post
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  #8932  
Old 11-22-12, 09:51
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Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
For me the whole lot of tainted ones can go. Start with a clean slate. Plenty of untainted riders out there, just that we may not yet know of them. I'm also comfortable with an amnesty concept. It's about how the stakeholders (incl. sponsors) want the sport to go forward. And that's why I like the concept of 'clean' declarations by riders and teams. But it needs to be backed up with transparency... on the past, on the bloods, on the UCI process, etc etc. And that's what is holding this back. Via UCI leadership. Just not there.
the concept of declarations is the most absurd muppetry known to man.

under what contract were they riding their pro careers?

if they lied to race, why wont they lie when they put ink to paper?

hmmm. BS

fail socratic method
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  #8933  
Old 11-22-12, 10:15
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
Come on Vickers, do you want guys like Rogers in your sport? Y/N.
I don't care, unless there is EVIDENCE of doping. Then boot the bast*rd.

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And then, do you want them in your team Sky, screwing your/its reputation? Y/N
It's not my team Sky. And the insinuation in childish. It's about half a step up from sticking your tongue out and blowing a raspberry.

I've said time out of number,

- I'm not British, I'm Irish. I have no Pro-Brit agenda; it's a silly accusation.
- I have no skin in that (Sky's) game in particular, and
- I couldn't care less what happens to them as a team

With one exception. I care about doping. and I care about evidence. I don't like whitewashes. and I don't like witchhunts.

Sky's reputation is of no concern to me; it's their problem.

My reputation is perfectly fine. I look for evidence, not snide remarks and not rumours.


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Should also be simple to resolve for Rogers, ie. to either sign and declare himself clean, or explain himself otherwise and find another team or retire.
Well, Sky announced last night that all remaining staff and riders had signed it - so presumably you're going to find out soon enough whether he signed, or left.

I'm also perfectly happy, given the 'unfortunate associations', for the relevant authorities to target him pretty relentlessly. I think that's the fair conclusion to what we currently have by way of evidence.

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But no need for you to defend the man, he can do that quite simply himself in public. As a high profile rider and quite chatty to the media should be no problem.
I don't defend the man. Couldn't give a toss about the man. I defend the fairness of the process. You seem to think the process exists to vindicate your suspicions.

It's really not true.

It exists to find and deter cheats, and to ensure fairness. Anything that improves that I support.

The high school ***** club in here; not really improving much.

my 2c

Last edited by martinvickers; 11-22-12 at 10:20.
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  #8934  
Old 11-22-12, 18:26
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Libertine Seguros Libertine Seguros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
Eyewitness statements are direct evidence, not hearsay.
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Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
I don't care, unless there is EVIDENCE of doping. Then boot the bast*rd.
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Originally Posted by slowspoke View Post
So we have eyewitness accounts of blood doping

http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/tmo...619042013.html
Leipheimer affidavit - note page 9.

For context, Rogers was at a camp alongside Levi Leipheimer (confessed doper), Alexander Vinokourov and Andriy Kashechkin (known and caught dopers) and Yaroslav Popovych (a long-suspected doper whose PC was raided). This was in May 2005, when Leipheimer was doping, Vino and probably Kashechkin were doping, and Popo had been in the top 5 of the Giro the previous two years. You tell me, was he going there to exchange carbonara recipes?

For further context, Filippo Pozzato is currently banned for using Dr. Ferrari. CONI have just issued a request for bans for Michele Scarponi and Giovanni Visconti for the same reason.

Personally, I consider that, if eyewitness accounts are legit evidence, Mick Rogers should have been kicked out of Sky and the fact that he was there in the first place was evidence that the 'zero tolerance' policy deserves the inverted commas I just gave it.
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  #8935  
Old 11-22-12, 19:16
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Originally Posted by ebandit View Post
so rogers should be sacked because of the actions of another rider?

i believe rogers has signed to say that he never doped............how could

sky be entitled to take action until doping is proven?
Reasonable suspicion is enough to give him the kick AFAIK.
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  #8936  
Old 11-22-12, 19:34
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Leipheimer's affidavit states he, Popovych, Kashechkin, Vinokourov and Rogers were at a camp with Ferrari as coach in May 2005. Ferrari was given a suspended prison sentence and banned from acting as a doctor for 11 months in October 2004.

While we may not be able to expressly ping Rogers... there's certainly enough to say that he belongs nowhere anywhere near a "zero tolerance" team.
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  #8937  
Old 11-22-12, 20:26
MatParker117 MatParker117 is offline
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Originally Posted by Libertine Seguros View Post
Leipheimer's affidavit states he, Popovych, Kashechkin, Vinokourov and Rogers were at a camp with Ferrari as coach in May 2005. Ferrari was given a suspended prison sentence and banned from acting as a doctor for 11 months in October 2004.

While we may not be able to expressly ping Rogers... there's certainly enough to say that he belongs nowhere anywhere near a "zero tolerance" team.
His contract is up.
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  #8938  
Old 11-22-12, 20:27
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Some power data on Wiggo from a Sky atlantic doc (believe this was during Paris-Nice):

Over a 30 minute period during the race he averaged 440 watts.
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  #8939  
Old 11-22-12, 20:29
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His contract is up.
How convenient. He can go have a beer with Yates and took about their non-disclosure departures.
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  #8940  
Old 11-22-12, 20:33
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If you are caught leaving a massage parlour at 3 in the morning chances are you were up to no good. Its the Clinton 'I never inhaled' defence: Rogers trained with Ferrari, that makes him a doper in my eyes, then and possibly now.

Sky should make him walk the plank. Now if he has signed and Sky don't, while causing hoots of derison from here no doubt, it should be noted that their hands are tied. There is no definitive evidence against him, just hearsay. To terminate a contract on those grounds would invite civil action.

The rest of the world doesn't live by clinic rules, There you can't decide someone is guilty because you say so. And you can't sack someone for that either
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