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Old 11-23-12, 21:21
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Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
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Marathon = running = pounding RBCs underheel.

Cycling = no (intentional) impact, so the damaging of RBCs effect at a minimum is reduced.
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Old 11-24-12, 00:39
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ChewbaccaD ChewbaccaD is offline
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Obvious answer to ridiculous question. If you didn't know the answer, notwithstanding the reasoning, before you posted, you're the only one who didn't.
Not sure I even care anymore...
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Old 11-26-12, 23:51
Lukenwolf Lukenwolf is offline
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Originally Posted by thegripo View Post
a 2h05 marathon requires 8 wks recovery time just to start training hard again. and even then, elite marathoners at best are able to run 2 marathons in one year at that level. And EVEN THEN, they can't even hold that level for 2 years in a row.

recovery in cycling is totally different game.

anyways, i think it is possible to race a 3 wk stage race without doping, BUT not at current levels. IMO there's no way you can handle the training loads/intensity and recovery required to race current TDF stages at current paces.

remove doping and performance would change drastically.
Ok, so basically the initial flaw in my idea is that for the marathon runner the recovery is more needed for the stress put on the body (ankles, joints, feet etc) rather than the exhaustion.
The general consensus seems to be that without drugs people would simply go slower.

Ok, so let's do a simplified example:
Before the suspected start of EPO doping, the average speed of a tour was around 35/36 kph, and it went rapidly to and past the 40kph mark ever since. Allowing for advances in technology (Carbon instead of steel) lets forget everything above 40kph. That still means EPO increased the average speed by something like 5kph. Over the course of a typical tour (3.500 km) that would make a wooping 12.5 hours increase in riding time. But then we still have other things to consider

a) drugs like "the oil" which facilitate better/faster regeneration.
b) decreased regeneration time due to longer travel times.

I think with 'regeneration drugs' and other things like growth hormones taken out of the equation and factoring in that average speed would decrease over the tour due to less drug-optimized regeneration, I'd say another 2kph drop is warranted, leaving us at a 'pedestrian' 33kph. That would leave us at a racing time of 106 hours, 20 more than currently, which mean on average the riders would have one whole hour less recuperation time EVERY DAY.
Add to that that flat stages will be less affected by time increase as well as time trials, we could well look at 8-9h mountain stages, especially in the last week. That would hardly leave enough time to travel/regenerate etc. for the next stage, not even counting the fact that it will be a tough sell to have 6 hour live broadcasts.

So wouldn't a 'clean field' at least require a shortening of those mammoth mountain romps of 200+ kilometers?
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Old 11-27-12, 14:43
Frank Tuesday Frank Tuesday is offline
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Originally Posted by Lukenwolf View Post
Is, what is asked of the riders, even realistically possible on pan y agua? Looking at a grand tour, I admit it sounds unlikely to me.

... Heck, even if a stage amounts "only" to a half-marathon, it would still sound utterly superhuman.

Could it be that some cycling races would be nigh-on impossible without drugs?
No one is asking them to do it on bread and water. They have trainers, dietician, cooks, doctors, coaches, etc. Is it possible to ride a GT without doping? Absolutely. Look at cross country charity rides. Every year, thousands of people ride across the USA @ 100 miles a day. They are fit, but they aren't all world class athletes.

Back to your original question, Is doping inevitable? Yes, but anytime you have something where a person can gain power, status or wealth, some people are willing to lie, cheat, and steal to gain the spoils. Education, politics, sport, marriage, business, etc. None are immune to the fallibility of humans.
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