Sky - Page 907 - CyclingNews Forum

Go Back   CyclingNews Forum > Road > The Clinic

The Clinic The Clinic is the only place on Cyclingnews where you can discuss doping-related issues. Ask questions, discuss positives or improvements to procedures.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #9061  
Old 11-24-12, 09:11
Ferminal Ferminal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 16,386
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Baroudeur View Post
Ouch, who was that, and did they give a reason for the suspision?
Gusev apparently tested positive, but after they sacked him it was found that the sample was not positive enough for a ban.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2010/dirty-deal

This article is a great read.
Reply With Quote
  #9062  
Old 11-24-12, 09:55
Dear Wiggo's Avatar
Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sunny Australia
Posts: 5,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer the Half Wit View Post
The film might have recently aired but that interviews in it were conducted over the whole year. The bit where he talks about the 2010 Tour was conducted at the start of the year before he had won anything. So unless he can see in the future or have unbelievable hindsight to foresee your argument about him going from good to crap to good between 09-12 I'm more inclined to believe the film.
I don't follow you at all - what are you talking about?

The film was by Sky Atlantic, and released this year.
__________________
Letters to and from the pro peloton. twitter | blog

Last edited by Dear Wiggo; 11-24-12 at 10:01.
Reply With Quote
  #9063  
Old 11-24-12, 10:50
Spencer the Half Wit's Avatar
Spencer the Half Wit Spencer the Half Wit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
I don't follow you at all - what are you talking about?

The film was by Sky Atlantic, and released this year.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. He was interviewed in January of this year, i.e. before him winning everything in sight, for the film and talked about his poor performance in the 2010 Tour . Shane Sutton confirmed it and said "He couldn't pull the foreskin off a rice pudding" whatever that means.
Reply With Quote
  #9064  
Old 11-24-12, 10:57
Dear Wiggo's Avatar
Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sunny Australia
Posts: 5,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer the Half Wit View Post
Sorry if I wasn't clear. He was interviewed in January of this year, i.e. before him winning everything in sight, for the film and talked about his poor performance in the 2010 Tour . Shane Sutton confirmed it and said "He couldn't pull the foreskin off a rice pudding" whatever that means.
The interview I quoted was from 2010 - about his 2010 performance and in particular his Tour. He was coached by the same people as 2009 but in a better funded, better resourced team.

If you read the interview it's obvious what went wrong - he wasn't allowed to do it his way, the way he did it in 2009. In early 2011 Brailsford said they were going to relax their ZTP having already hired Leinders.

To come out in 2012 and have a bunch of new excuses for his 2010 performance, produced by Sky Atlantic, who need to set the best possible narrative for believability since 2010, where he has gone from strength to strength purely on the back of marginal gains.

No question I am prejudiced, but this film and in particular the reference to 2010? Not believable.

No mention of Kerrison anywhere either.
__________________
Letters to and from the pro peloton. twitter | blog
Reply With Quote
  #9065  
Old 11-24-12, 11:07
Spencer the Half Wit's Avatar
Spencer the Half Wit Spencer the Half Wit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
The interview I quoted was from 2010 - about his 2010 performance and in particular his Tour. He was coached by the same people as 2009 but in a better funded, better resourced team.

If you read the interview it's obvious what went wrong - he wasn't allowed to do it his way, the way he did it in 2009. In early 2011 Brailsford said they were going to relax their ZTP having already hired Leinders.

To come out in 2012 and have a bunch of new excuses for his 2010 performance, produced by Sky Atlantic, who need to set the best possible narrative for believability since 2010, where he has gone from strength to strength purely on the back of marginal gains.

No question I am prejudiced, but this film and in particular the reference to 2010? Not believable.

No mention of Kerrison anywhere either.
It's not uncommon for people to give multiple excuses for bad performances, some more valid than others.

The point I was making was that the interview for the film was before this thread, before the accusations of doping and before your theory to explain the 2009 performance, the subsequent dip in results and his miraculous performance this year.

It's not credible to say that in January he knew he was going to win everything this year and therefore had to excuse his 2010 performance.
Reply With Quote
  #9066  
Old 11-24-12, 11:17
Mellow Velo's Avatar
Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
The interview I quoted was from 2010 - about his 2010 performance and in particular his Tour. He was coached by the same people as 2009 but in a better funded, better resourced team.

If you read the interview it's obvious what went wrong - he wasn't allowed to do it his way, the way he did it in 2009. In early 2011 Brailsford said they were going to relax their ZTP having already hired Leinders.

To come out in 2012 and have a bunch of new excuses for his 2010 performance, produced by Sky Atlantic, who need to set the best possible narrative for believability since 2010, where he has gone from strength to strength purely on the back of marginal gains.

No question I am prejudiced, but this film and in particular the reference to 2010? Not believable.

No mention of Kerrison anywhere either.
You got that right.
You haven't seen the film, dismiss it as prejudiced and yet, you, yourself admit to being prejudice. So, you stick to the version that suits your views.
Not believable from a position of semi-ignorance is meaningless.

Watch the film. Taken on face value and the reasons given are quite believable.
Then it becomes a question of choice and level of cynicism.
__________________
They use thought only to justify their injustices, and speech only to disguise their thoughts. Voltaire
Reply With Quote
  #9067  
Old 11-24-12, 11:22
Dear Wiggo's Avatar
Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sunny Australia
Posts: 5,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer the Half Wit View Post
It's not credible to say that in January he knew he was going to win everything this year and therefore had to excuse his 2010 performance.
It was about as credible as Lance Armstrong's Tailwind paying $400+k insurance to SCA after winning what 2 or 3 Tours for a multi-million dollar payout for winning 6 in a row.

Add in meetings with ASO discussing Brad's power and training data and I'm prepared to believe they knew Brad was going to go well in 2012 - the Tour being the key event.

The only thing I am disagreeing with from your original post is that Brad was left alone in 2010 - his interview from 2010 says micromanaged, and I find that believable, and potentially impacting on his ability to do what he wanted. This is reinforced by what JV says his interaction with Wiggins was in 2009, reinforced by JV's general appearance of a hands off approach to team management.
__________________
Letters to and from the pro peloton. twitter | blog

Last edited by Dear Wiggo; 11-24-12 at 11:27.
Reply With Quote
  #9068  
Old 11-24-12, 11:29
The Hitch's Avatar
The Hitch The Hitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London.
Posts: 22,581
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyFingers View Post
I Sky was the most successful team in 2012 yes, but dominance? The rider that topped the rankings was from Katusha, the winner of the Giro rode for Garmin, the Vuelta for Astana.
Contador does not ride for astana anymore
__________________
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013 (still undefeated). Currently 2nd all time cq rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pre 2009 wiggins
If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that.
journalist with integrity.
Reply With Quote
  #9069  
Old 11-24-12, 11:40
thehog's Avatar
thehog thehog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 14,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hitch View Post
Contador does not ride for astana anymore
Oh dear Jimmy.

You know a team has systematic doping when the fanboys try and play down the dominance
Reply With Quote
  #9070  
Old 11-24-12, 11:40
Dear Wiggo's Avatar
Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sunny Australia
Posts: 5,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellow Velo View Post
You got that right.
You haven't seen the film, dismiss it as prejudiced and yet, you, yourself admit to being prejudice. So, you stick to the version that suits your views.
Not believable from a position of semi-ignorance is meaningless.

Watch the film. Taken on face value and the reasons given are quite believable.
Then it becomes a question of choice and level of cynicism.
I certainly didn't dismiss the film as prejudiced but I'd say it's about as believable as the independent Vrijman report. Are you seriously expecting me to believe SKY Atlantic are going to produce a film saying anything other than carefully worded scripts to help explain this farce of a Sky-dominated pro cycling calendar year?

Puhlease.

I already know they are contradicting what Brad himself said in 2010 - what more proof do you need?

All I am sticking to is what Brad himself said in an interview. ffs Mellow, wake up to yourself.

ETA: do you think the new, independent report / commission whatever into the UCI is going to be damning of the UCI in anything but the most trivial of matters? Sky are a media company - with a dedicated PR officer in Fran Millar. Check the latest update on how they handle potentially hostile media here: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpos...&postcount=322
__________________
Letters to and from the pro peloton. twitter | blog

Last edited by Dear Wiggo; 11-24-12 at 11:51.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2006 - 2009 Future Publishing Limited. All rights reserved. Future Publishing Limited is part of the Future plc group. Future Publishing Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company registration number 2008885 whose registered office is at Beauford Court 30 Monmouth Street Bath, UK BA1 2BW England.