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  #71  
Old 11-23-12, 20:53
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Originally Posted by LaFlorecita View Post
Yea after Alberto dropped him he realized he was stronger than Alberto. Makes sense
Rujano has to ride relatively higher wattages to even keep up with him, he weighs about 10 kgs less than Alberto. Without air resistance and a fixed bike weight Rujano is the best climber of the world, simple as that.

There's also nothing good about being a 'pure' climber, only being able to climb but sucking at the rest would make you quite useless in most teams.

Last edited by Pentacycle; 11-23-12 at 21:02.
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  #72  
Old 11-24-12, 06:22
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Who are the top ten pure climbers today? I want to clarify that for me a classic rider like Valverde, Nibali or Chris Froome arent pure climbers. Here's my list: 1) Alberto Contador 2) Andy Schleck 3) J. Rod 4) Thibaut Pinot 5) Jürgen Van Den Broeck 6) Pierre Rolland 7) Nairo Quintana 8) Robert Gesink 9) José Rujano 10) Domenico Pozzovivo.

And another questions. Which generation of climbers of the last 50 years was better? Maybe the 70s? Will we overcome the current crisis of pure climbers thanks for the new hopes?
Pinot in my view should be lower than Rolland, Rolland won on bigger mountain stages (though Pinot is younger) and Pinot packs a very good sprint, just like Valverde... which i am a bit bemused to his withdrawal and the same with Nibali (who climbs very well).

JVDB in my view would be the lowest on this list if at all.
If this was made last year Evans would be on it.
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Last edited by greenedge; 11-24-12 at 06:26.
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  #73  
Old 11-24-12, 06:37
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Rujano has to ride relatively higher wattages to even keep up with him, he weighs about 10 kgs less than Alberto. Without air resistance and a fixed bike weight Rujano is the best climber of the world, simple as that.

There's also nothing good about being a 'pure' climber, only being able to climb but sucking at the rest would make you quite useless in most teams.
? It's all about the watts per kg right?
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Originally Posted by Afrank
Froome see's how Contador is already dressing himself in yellow in anticipation for July, how he rides with no helmet without fear, how he and his loyal second in command Kreuziger have grown thin, how he takes on the sprinters in a bunch sprint, and how Contador has given previews of what others will face in July in the form of Giro 2011 pictures....

...and he feels fear...
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  #74  
Old 11-24-12, 08:58
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? It's all about the watts per kg right?
I'll explain as far as I understand myself: Let's say two riders are riding together and have to ride same w/kg.(it's true what you say but a little more complicated) One rider is 48 kg, the other 61 kg. If both riders have a max of 6.5 W/kg they can sustain(so they'll be dropped if they get above that) and they both have the same 6.8 kg bike, the 61 kg rider has an absolute max power of 397W, the other of 312. But with their bikes they only have left: 5.7 W/kg for the 48kg rider and 5.85 W for the 61 kg rider. For air resistance if both riders have the same resistance the lighter one also has that disadvantage, because it's the same as with the fixed bike weight.

This means a rider who is heavier and thereby can produce more absolute power always gets the upper hand, if equally talented. The hypothetical 0.15 W/kg difference is a lot. Rujano on the Etna could only follow when he was completely behind Contador, but he was dropped when the wind came from the side.
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  #75  
Old 11-24-12, 10:13
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pure climber means they can just climb?

natural born climbers:

Ricco
Rujano
Pozzovivo
Quintana
Rassmussen
Anton
Cunego
Schleck's
Gesink
hope that Pinot too

Contador is a natural born all rounder, like Merckx and Coppi
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  #76  
Old 11-24-12, 10:53
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is offline
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Originally Posted by Pentacycle View Post
I'll explain as far as I understand myself: Let's say two riders are riding together and have to ride same w/kg.(it's true what you say but a little more complicated) One rider is 48 kg, the other 61 kg. If both riders have a max of 6.5 W/kg they can sustain(so they'll be dropped if they get above that) and they both have the same 6.8 kg bike, the 61 kg rider has an absolute max power of 397W, the other of 312. But with their bikes they only have left: 5.7 W/kg for the 48kg rider and 5.85 W for the 61 kg rider.
Yea... but we don't know their max W/kg so we can't say who is more talented.

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For air resistance if both riders have the same resistance the lighter one also has that disadvantage, because it's the same as with the fixed bike weight.

This means a rider who is heavier and thereby can produce more absolute power always gets the upper hand, if equally talented. The hypothetical 0.15 W/kg difference is a lot. Rujano on the Etna could only follow when he was completely behind Contador, but he was dropped when the wind came from the side.
But then again a smaller rider will have less air resistance as far as I know.
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Originally Posted by Afrank
Froome see's how Contador is already dressing himself in yellow in anticipation for July, how he rides with no helmet without fear, how he and his loyal second in command Kreuziger have grown thin, how he takes on the sprinters in a bunch sprint, and how Contador has given previews of what others will face in July in the form of Giro 2011 pictures....

...and he feels fear...
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  #77  
Old 11-24-12, 10:54
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is offline
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Originally Posted by Capablanca and me View Post
pure climber means they can just climb?

natural born climbers:

Ricco
Rujano
Pozzovivo
Quintana
Rassmussen
Anton
Cunego
Schleck's
Gesink
hope that Pinot too

Contador is a natural born all rounder, like Merckx and Coppi
I disagree, a pure climber doesn't have to be a horrible tter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afrank
Froome see's how Contador is already dressing himself in yellow in anticipation for July, how he rides with no helmet without fear, how he and his loyal second in command Kreuziger have grown thin, how he takes on the sprinters in a bunch sprint, and how Contador has given previews of what others will face in July in the form of Giro 2011 pictures....

...and he feels fear...
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  #78  
Old 11-24-12, 12:01
theyoungest theyoungest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capablanca and me View Post
pure climber means they can just climb?

natural born climbers:

Ricco
Rujano
Pozzovivo
Quintana
Rassmussen
Anton
Cunego
Schleck's
Gesink
hope that Pinot too

Contador is a natural born all rounder, like Merckx and Coppi
Gesink was a real climber when he started out, now he's more of a TTer who can hang on in the climbs

Conversely, I still think of Contador as a pure climber who happens to know how to translate that power to a time trial. He's not the grind-it-out type of climber like most allrounders are.
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  #79  
Old 11-24-12, 13:45
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Angliru Angliru is offline
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Originally Posted by Pentacycle View Post
Rujano has to ride relatively higher wattages to even keep up with him, he weighs about 10 kgs less than Alberto. Without air resistance and a fixed bike weight Rujano is the best climber of the world, simple as that.

There's also nothing good about being a 'pure' climber, only being able to climb but sucking at the rest would make you quite useless in most teams.
Doing it fairly consistently would help his cause but Rujano is too wishy-washy to be given serious consideration as the best. Too many incidences of him getting dropped on the very terrain that he should excell. When he's good he's great but when he's bad, which is way too often, he's really bad.
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  #80  
Old 11-24-12, 13:48
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Angliru Angliru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capablanca and me View Post
pure climber means they can just climb?

natural born climbers:

Ricco
Rujano
Pozzovivo
Quintana
Rassmussen
Anton
CunegoSchleck's
Gesink
hope that Pinot too

Contador is a natural born all rounder, like Merckx and Coppi
According to some of the previous poster's definitions, having a pretty good sprint knocks Ricco and Cunego out of consideration.
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