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  #9071  
Old 11-24-12, 12:00
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Dear Wiggo Dear Wiggo is offline
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If you're into reading I can highly recommend an English author by the name of George Orwell and his seminal novel 1984.

Every time Sky come out with something new it reminds me of newspeak and anyone questioning their performances as being guilty of thought crimes.

How dare you question the state!

2 years ago Brad was being micro managed - he had too many advisers and they wouldn't leave him alone like Garmin did in 2009.

January of this year he says 2 years ago he was left alone completely.

Are we at war with Oceania or Eurasia?

Who can remember.
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Last edited by Dear Wiggo; 11-24-12 at 12:02.
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  #9072  
Old 11-24-12, 12:05
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Netserk Netserk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Baroudeur View Post
Just to clarify, the testing regime at CSC wasn't so much internal, but rather, and importantly, it was wholely independent of the team, being designed and run by one of the sports and teams foremost critics and experts at the time, with no restrictions in scope, and strict financial and organisational barriers between the testers and the team. Further, all test data and results were published in full for transparency.

The testing started in 2007, and concluded when the Biological Passport system came online to replace it (being an all but identical testing system afaik).

The Astana testing was based on the CSC programme, with the exclussion of Armstrong who had his own test programme iirc?



See above... I'm not sure how this correlates with the CSC test programme at all? I see how it might with teams that do do there own tests internally, but again, it would be just as beficial to the team to remove and prevent issues by control of offending riders. Just because a team doesn't want a scandal, doesn't mean they aren't actively discouraging or working against doping, and pushing out riders that don't get the message?
Actually no.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dams...ping-programme

Quote:
Belhage found that Damsgaard, by accepting the bike from the team, violated ethical standards and compromised Damsgaard's objectivity. Now that Damsgaard has created his own company, Radar, of which he is 100 percent owner, there is a direct economic connection between the team and Damsgaard which jeopardizes the project's legitimacy.
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  #9073  
Old 11-24-12, 12:13
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Spencer the Half Wit Spencer the Half Wit is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
It was about as credible as Lance Armstrong's Tailwind paying $400+k insurance to SCA after winning what 2 or 3 Tours for a multi-million dollar payout for winning 6 in a row.

Add in meetings with ASO discussing Brad's power and training data and I'm prepared to believe they knew Brad was going to go well in 2012 - the Tour being the key event.

The only thing I am disagreeing with from your original post is that Brad was left alone in 2010 - his interview from 2010 says micromanaged, and I find that believable, and potentially impacting on his ability to do what he wanted. This is reinforced by what JV says his interaction with Wiggins was in 2009, reinforced by JV's general appearance of a hands off approach to team management.
Nice strawman there.

In the 2010 interview, two months after the tour(?), he's hardly going to say "I rode crap because I went out on the lash and didn't bother to train". Also I don't read in the interview that he was micromanaged in 2010. Confirmation bias on both our parts maybe.
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  #9074  
Old 11-24-12, 12:18
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Originally Posted by Netserk View Post
I couldn't remember specifics but I did remember Damsgaard being kinda dodgy - thanks for the reminder.

There's a tragically ironic quote in the 2008 Garmin interviews about their clean ethos and internal testing, where they journo recounts a Spanish company offering internal testing and calls it dodgy coz they are offering it as a reverse anti-doping service. Yet CSC, Astana and Garmin were all touted as good guys and proving it whilst doing exactly the same thing.

The "right" way:
Quote:
http://tourdefrancefacts.com/article...7647-2,00.html
Three teams in this year's Tour - Garmin-Chipotle, Columbia and CSC-Saxo Bank - participate in anti-doping programs, administered by independent testers. A fourth team not in the Tour, Astana, began such a program this year.

Teams handle results release in various ways. CSC-Saxo Bank, which participates in a separate but similar anti-doping program run by the Danish researcher Rasmus Damsgaard, publishes an annual mid-season release of results. (Damsgaard also has results sent directly to the UCI and WADA before even he sees them, to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest.)
The "wrong" way:
Quote:
So what does all that mean? A clever athlete could still potentially dope and not go past these levels. In a development last week, two major Spanish newspapers wrote that Marcos Maynar, a Spanish doctor for the Portuguese LA-MSS team had propositioned 10 other teams offering to set up a kind of reverse anti-doping program. For a fee, he would conduct urine testing and steroid profiles on riders to ensure they would not test positive. Maynar denies the accusations. It is the job of ACE, Garmin's testing partner, to make sure that a clever athlete cannot fool his team.
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  #9075  
Old 11-24-12, 13:08
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Mellow Velo Mellow Velo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer the Half Wit View Post
Nice strawman there.

In the 2010 interview, two months after the tour(?), he's hardly going to say "I rode crap because I went out on the lash and didn't bother to train". Also I don't read in the interview that he was micromanaged in 2010. Confirmation bias on both our parts maybe.

I don't read anything in that article than contradicts what was said in the documentary.
Brad gives one example of what went wrong and goes on to expand upon why.
Sky got the tapering wrong and over complicated the racing phase.
It's one reason, not the only reason.
Indeed, the film's reasons; being back on the booze, training with less commitment and team mates giving less than truthful fitness reports to HQ are not exactly PR coups.

Interestingly, the interview also includes this:
Quote:
The road ahead

Wiggins explains that he and Sutton are "going back to what we used to do and he's going to try to guide me through this."
Which also came out in the documentary.
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  #9076  
Old 11-24-12, 15:32
Darryl Webster Darryl Webster is offline
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The road ahead:

Wiggins explains that he and Sutton are "going back to what we used to do and he's going to try to guide me through this."

Oh yes, Shane knows full well how to "prepare" and anyone who knows anything about PED use knows its mostly about in training.
Shane certainly has the experience.
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  #9077  
Old 11-24-12, 19:32
Freddythefrog Freddythefrog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Webster View Post
The road ahead:

Wiggins explains that he and Sutton are "going back to what we used to do and he's going to try to guide me through this."

Oh yes, Shane knows full well how to "prepare" and anyone who knows anything about PED use knows its mostly about in training.
Shane certainly has the experience.
Was a rider Shane helped "prepare" a few years ago Julian Winn ?
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  #9078  
Old 11-24-12, 19:52
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Webster View Post
The road ahead:

Wiggins explains that he and Sutton are "going back to what we used to do and he's going to try to guide me through this."

Oh yes, Shane knows full well how to "prepare" and anyone who knows anything about PED use knows its mostly about in training.
Shane certainly has the experience.
You'll be wanting these numbers then :

UK Anti-doping Hotline 08000 32 23 32
ASADA Anti-doping hotline 13 000 27232

No doubt they'll be glad to hear from you.
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  #9079  
Old 11-24-12, 20:13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
You'll be wanting these numbers then :

UK Anti-doping Hotline 08000 32 23 32
ASADA Anti-doping hotline 13 000 27232

No doubt they'll be glad to hear from you.
Calm down Vickers. Stop being the resident priest around here.

This is serious stuff. It's not telling the headmaster someone skipped class.
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  #9080  
Old 11-24-12, 20:17
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
You'll be wanting these numbers then :

UK Anti-doping Hotline 08000 32 23 32
ASADA Anti-doping hotline 13 000 27232

No doubt they'll be glad to hear from you.
Again you are confusing Team Sky policy with anti- doping violations.
UKAD & ASADA would be restricted by SOL in investigating any incidents that probably occurred 20 years ago.
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