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  #591  
Old 11-25-12, 04:41
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do you want me to say it again?

Armstrong had 5 years competing at elite levels by the time he was 21.

At 21, Froomie had come from Kenya, to SA, and then road onto John Robertson's Konica Minolta team, and was on the UCI Le Monde (aigle) development quad for espoirs for a few races, like lAvenir. Then Robertson upgraded him onto the Barloworld team. And he had a fantastic first Tour at 23. And he had perhaps the least experience of anyone in the European pro peloton. Everyone seems to miss this point.

Then thanks to the Claudio Corti fiasco and Barlo failing to get him a suitable race program with John Lee Augustyn, his race shedule caused him to plateau in his development.
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Millartime@leTour It would be nice to see him in the Tour of Britain. I think he deserves to go out on a good note, I might even bid for his shoes if he's in TOB, What size is he?
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  #592  
Old 11-25-12, 04:43
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oh, and when Brailsfor brought him in for testing circa 2008, he tested thru the roof, and Brailsford speculated his ergo result pedigree meant he was a potential TdF winner.

there is stuff floating round the web on this, so there is a record.

He is anything but a donkey, with no indication of latent ability.
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Millartime@leTour It would be nice to see him in the Tour of Britain. I think he deserves to go out on a good note, I might even bid for his shoes if he's in TOB, What size is he?
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  #593  
Old 11-25-12, 04:58
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Originally Posted by blackcat View Post
do you want me to say it again?

Armstrong had 5 years competing at elite levels by the time he was 21.

At 21, Froomie had come from Kenya, to SA, and then road onto John Robertson's Konica Minolta team, and was on the UCI Le Monde (aigle) development quad for espoirs for a few races, like lAvenir. Then Robertson upgraded him onto the Barloworld team. And he had a fantastic first Tour at 23. And he had perhaps the least experience of anyone in the European pro peloton. Everyone seems to miss this point.

Then thanks to the Claudio Corti fiasco and Barlo failing to get him a suitable race program with John Lee Augustyn, his race shedule caused him to plateau in his development.
He has lots of experience now. Lots.
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  #594  
Old 11-25-12, 11:25
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oh, and when Brailsfor brought him in for testing circa 2008, he tested thru the roof, and Brailsford speculated his ergo result pedigree meant he was a potential TdF winner.

there is stuff floating round the web on this, so there is a record.

He is anything but a donkey, with no indication of latent ability.
So why would they not give him a new contract after a long spell of illness during his first two years with Sky? Brailsford publically stated in 2009 he wanted a British winner of the Tour within 5 years. If he thought Froome could be a TdF winner, would he really not renew his contract? At a point where Bradley had bombed in the 2010 Tour and crashed out of the 2011 Tour, and it could be said Wiggins was running out of time to have a real run at the Tour. Would Brailsford really release a younger, "through the roof" Froome?

I'm not just stirring the pot here, I genuinely believe Sky were as taken aback as everyone else by his performance in 2011 Vuelta.
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...[Walsh] thinks we're ahead of the curve. But think about it for a sec. We're building long-lasting, trusting relationships with people who are spending a lot of money - Coke, Nike, Subaru. If we're f***ing lying, we can kiss it all goodbye. And if we were lying we'd do some stupid stuff to try to cover it up, wouldn't we? Does anybody think for a second that a secret that big wouldn't come out? Bill Stapleton

Last edited by will10; 11-25-12 at 11:28.
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  #595  
Old 11-25-12, 11:33
Grandillusion Grandillusion is offline
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Originally Posted by Avoriaz View Post
Just guessing, but they probably didn't ride bikes in PE.

And never seen a cyclist make a good runner. I rememeber once Phil Anderson getting dropped by about 150m in the 400m of Superstars...long time ago
Ever heard of Rob Jebb?
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  #596  
Old 11-25-12, 11:46
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Originally Posted by acoggan View Post
??

Wiggins data is all over the web. That's how I was able to put this plot together:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpos...&postcount=184

Now 'tis true that mostly only average values are mentioned, and actual files only occasionally posted...but in this case there is little to be learned from inspecting the moment-by-moment power.
Sky told me this on live chat when I asked why they don't publush.
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  #597  
Old 11-25-12, 13:08
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Froome19 Froome19 is offline
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Originally Posted by will10 View Post
Are you sure? What signs were they then Mister 19?

Before the Vuelta '11 most people who knew about Froome (not many) remembered him crashing into the commissaire at the U23 Worlds.
First race in Europe:

1st in Giro delle Regioni, Stage 5 : Chianciano Terme - Montepulciano
2nd Giro delle Regioni, Stage 2 : Citta' Sant'Angelo - Citta' Sant'Angelo
He would have won the overall if not for a series of crashes.

Then his subsequent results at Barloworld in 08 were very impressive for a first year neo-pro from Africa.

Corti, Brailsford and Julich all claimed he was capable of attaining a very high level and he had immense potential. To come over from Africa and be capable of competing against the European riders is quite a feat in itself.

Check this post for specific details about Froome's early career
http://velorooms.com/the-doping-sect...9781/#msg59781
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Gratz to Cav.
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  #598  
Old 11-25-12, 13:16
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Froome19 Froome19 is offline
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Originally Posted by ferryman View Post
If Froome were to be clean it is obvious that he is certainly one of the best GC riders in the world. Most likely the best or second.

I would be interested to know who you think would be the best if Froome was second best?
An on form Alberto Contador, but it is hard to judge such matters until we have seen GC riders all competing against each other in fair circumstances

Quote:
[B]So him thus competing and narrowly losing out to those three, who may have been aided by other aids, is certainly not all that suspicious.
[/quote
10 minutes+ is not a narrow defeat in a GT. Also, can you post your reasons why you have lumped JRod in with the other two, other than him being Spanish?
I was not talking about this in context of the Vuelta, rather just when Froome was not so incapacitated by fatigue that he could actually compete to a degree.

Also I lumped in Purito because the poster I was replying to lumped in Purito with the other two and therefore I was challenging his post by claiming that it was possible to realise Froome's performance even against 3 dopers as he explicity states:
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After a hard tour and a long season Froome went up against the three amigos....who , lets face it, were not training or cycling on bread and water. In fact it was bloody obvious and plain as day what was going on.

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Not your finest post young Froome.
Care to explain why?
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Gratz to Cav.
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  #599  
Old 11-25-12, 13:17
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Originally Posted by Netserk View Post
So Armstrong was clean
No

Armstong was talented, but he also took PEDs.. unless of course you disagree with all that evidence of USADAs
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Gratz to Cav.
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  #600  
Old 11-25-12, 13:31
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Originally Posted by Froome19 View Post
First race in Europe:

1st in Giro delle Regioni, Stage 5 : Chianciano Terme - Montepulciano
2nd Giro delle Regioni, Stage 2 : Citta' Sant'Angelo - Citta' Sant'Angelo
He would have won the overall if not for a series of crashes.

Then his subsequent results at Barloworld in 08 were very impressive for a first year neo-pro from Africa.

Corti, Brailsford and Julich all claimed he was capable of attaining a very high level and he had immense potential. To come over from Africa and be capable of competing against the European riders is quite a feat in itself.

Check this post for specific details about Froome's early career
http://velorooms.com/the-doping-sect...9781/#msg59781
An impressive piece over on velorooms, but you failed to mention that his heart was 2/3s larger than a normal human's, or that he matured tubulars in his basement for five years before using them.
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...[Walsh] thinks we're ahead of the curve. But think about it for a sec. We're building long-lasting, trusting relationships with people who are spending a lot of money - Coke, Nike, Subaru. If we're f***ing lying, we can kiss it all goodbye. And if we were lying we'd do some stupid stuff to try to cover it up, wouldn't we? Does anybody think for a second that a secret that big wouldn't come out? Bill Stapleton
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