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  #5231  
Old 11-26-12, 22:48
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Replace 'communists' with 'secular progressives' and he's not that far off.
OK then.

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Depends on your definition of war. Boots on the ground invasion? Drones overhead? Cyber hacking? Lobbing in a few cruise missiles?

Vitriolic? Yeah, probably... his perception is more likely.
That Obama wasn't doing more in Iran and Syria was one of the things that you guys were ****ed off about during the election. Now he's doing too much. Can't you just pick one and stick with it?

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Now you are cracking me up Pot, meet kettle.
How'd those Romney polls work out for you folks?
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Old 11-26-12, 23:31
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But that's the position those making such claims are tending to put themselves in. Not that they'll be taken seriously of course, but they aren't offering plausible alternatives; let alone explanations of how this has come to pass.
But I'm not sure plausible alternatives are worth discussing.

Take education: The teachers unions will not allow and/or resist mightily their own being rewarded or punished by merit or achievement (or lack of). The unions position is just a microcosm of how things are developing across the political spectrum.

Teachers unions essentially launder money for the DNC, as do most other public employee unions.

Does anyone really think any ladder-climbing democrat wants to see change in public education? Who in the AARP crowd wants to unwind Obamacare (elder care subsidized by the young)? Does anyone think Trumka is at the WH several times a month to check on the Presidents dog?

Same stuff goes on in the R party too, so I'm not under many illusions.

Here's what I don't get. The charade could continue for some time if the economic engine will continue to produce. No matter what side you are on, one would think they would do everything in their power to make smart decisions in terms of perpetual economic growth. That, I think, was Putin's point in his 2008 speech that Lerma quotes.

And remember, Lerma has to cut through a helluva lot of clutter to get noticed here in the good ol USA.
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  #5233  
Old 11-26-12, 23:38
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OK then.

That Obama wasn't doing more in Iran and Syria was one of the things that you guys were ****ed off about during the election. Now he's doing too much. Can't you just pick one and stick with it?

How'd those Romney polls work out for you folks?
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That Obama wasn't doing more in Iran and Syria was one of the things that you guys were ****ed off about during the election. Now he's doing too much. Can't you just pick one and stick with it?
Why are you lumping me in with Lerma? He wrote the piece, not me. I selected some passages I agreed with. Waging war in Egypt wasn't one of them.


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How'd those Romney polls work out for you folks?
So now being wrong = being insane? Wow.
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  #5234  
Old 11-26-12, 23:48
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But I'm not sure plausible alternatives are worth discussing.

Take education: The teachers unions will not allow and/or resist mightily their own being rewarded or punished by merit or achievement (or lack of). The unions position is just a microcosm of how things are developing across the political spectrum.

Teachers unions essentially launder money for the DNC, as do most other public employee unions.

Does anyone really think any ladder-climbing democrat wants to see change in public education? Who in the AARP crowd wants to unwind Obamacare (elder care subsidized by the young)? Does anyone think Trumka is at the WH several times a month to check on the Presidents dog?

Same stuff goes on in the R party too, so I'm not under many illusions.

Here's what I don't get. The charade could continue for some time if the economic engine will continue to produce. No matter what side you are on, one would think they would do everything in their power to make smart decisions in terms of perpetual economic growth. That, I think, was Putin's point in his 2008 speech that Lerma quotes.

And remember, Lerma has to cut through a helluva lot of clutter to get noticed here in the good ol USA.
Well, a couple of things. The charge of left socialists (communists) in education extends beyond school into higher education. In the latter case, the scramble to display merit has become overhyped and absurd in terms of its output within the upper tiers and equally banal and administrative in the lower schools. The unions that exist, at least the few I've had part of, exist to ensure--in theory--some bargaining rights for fixed term and non-tenure faculty. I.e. graduate students primarily. And to negotiate reasonable work expectations for fairly minimal contract pay. Places like Stanford, for example, circumvent this problem by being selective at the outset and taking (relative) care of all academic staff, regardless of position--rather than establish vastly assymmetrical hierarchies. Those jobs are so few, however, that prospects will jump through all set hoops, often effectively demeaning themselves, rather than go without. The point here though, and the reality, is that most mid-level institutions of higher education are not infiltrated with secular progressives anymore than they are largely populated by moderates and even some social conservatives. Varies from state to state, city to city, but at the elite liberal institutions they are teaching networking as much as anything else and graduates are relying on their parents, at the less elite places, students are being groomed slightly more toward job placement and still relying on their parents. How long can this last under current conditions?

That said what the unions do is one thing, but in terms of quality of education at the precollege level, it seems to be going down in the public domain. That's very much the case in New York where there are severe supply and facility issues, but there's also the fact that many of the teachers are not equipped to deal with the students. Part of that is personal or subjective bias--liberal disdain for inner-city realties--but part of it comes down to the fact that it's no longer clear why students are being taught what they are and how it's supposed to allow them to interface with the realities of the contemporary economy.

Short answer, I don't think that a great deal of schools in the US are preparing students to achieve economic growth in a long term transformative sense.

Then of course there's this, which you may have noticed.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...-employer-gap#

But the other side of that reality is that if youth in this country are not better educated (outside the elite institutions) then they're going to be completely inequipped to propose and maintain an alternative landscape to the one sketched in that times article. That situation has been a long time coming from both top and bottom.

I can't speak to Russia really beyond the 1950s, but I do think their economic trajectory has been so different to ours that it may not be entirely useful to make direct comparisons.

Last edited by aphronesis; 11-26-12 at 23:55.
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  #5235  
Old 11-27-12, 00:08
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I was so looking forward to your reaction re: solar energy subsidies, Scott.
Energy subsidies.... ok.

Subsidies in this case are tax incentives and tax breaks. But to the point: let's just look at Exxon/Mobile. From 2005 to 2010 their net, pre-tax was $66 Billion. Their Federal income tax paid over this period was $21 Billion after what ever tax breaks they received.

Solar would have to receive subsidies to break even resulting in no income tax paid (as I understand it), so the argument may be specious.

I don't think we are anywhere near solar power for auto transportation yet the subsidy numbers include the production of gasoline. Between the federal govt and US States, the tax revenue generated from the sale of gasoline and diesel totals about $63 billion annually. Already, the Feds are freaking out as more efficient vehicles are producing less revenues... and the bait and switch is this: before long US consumers will be taxed on miles driven AND fuel consumed. So, money saved with CAFE standards is going to do nothing (economically) and any savings will be replaced by yet another tax.

Solar's great. But energy taxation is big business.
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  #5236  
Old 11-27-12, 00:46
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What's the over/under on charges getting filed?

Lessee, Greer (under indictment), Crist (epic doosh with a monumental axe to grind) and two un-named "consultants."

That's a slam dunk right there.
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  #5237  
Old 11-27-12, 04:42
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Why are you lumping me in with Lerma? He wrote the piece, not me. I selected some passages I agreed with. Waging war in Egypt wasn't one of them.




So now being wrong = being insane? Wow.
You are trying to cherry pick the 5% of what this guy says that is not entirely effing bat-**** crazy and say "see he has a point here", no, he doesn't, he has just stepped down the crazy for a second. The fact that it resonates with you should give you pause (but most likely will not).
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  #5238  
Old 11-27-12, 05:16
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You are trying to cherry pick the 5% of what this guy says that is not entirely effing bat-**** crazy and say "see he has a point here", no, he doesn't, he has just stepped down the crazy for a second. The fact that it resonates with you should give you pause (but most likely will not).

His broader point of America repeating the Soviet mistake is debate-worthy. You don't like the comparison, so it is, of course, crazy. I would think that should give you pause.


I thought Putin's quotes were interesting. Odd is getting lectured on limited government free market capitalism from someone of Putin's background, don't you think?
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  #5239  
Old 11-27-12, 10:41
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This has made my day!

Cute.

I like the "Dat A$$" version better.

Name your hard drive on the PC or MAC to "Dat A$$" THEN ever so often your computer will prompt you with the question. "Would you like to Back "Dat A$$" up? CLICK YES.
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  #5240  
Old 11-27-12, 15:31
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So now being wrong = being insane? Wow.
They developed their own polls that overrepresented their own constituency to create an image of Romney being ahead because that's what they wanted to believe - remember the "Unskewed" dude, who took the national polls and then reweighed all of them based on the Republican-friendly Rasmussen model? - and then you all believed it while mocking the Nate Silvers et al. who's models did actually reflect reality. That's not being wrong, that's creating an alternative reality more to your liking.
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