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Old 11-27-12, 15:36
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His broader point of America repeating the Soviet mistake is debate-worthy. You don't like the comparison, so it is, of course, crazy. I would think that should give you pause.
um, yes, Scott, it is in fact crazy. We're not even at the level of the UK or Canada, let alone the Soviet Union. Might be time for the TP'ers and cons to take a deep breath. Oh but right, America is doomed if we re-elect Obama. I keep forgetting.


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Odd is getting lectured on limited government free market capitalism from someone of Putin's background, don't you think?
Yeah it is. I would think that should give you pause.

Last edited by VeloCity; 11-27-12 at 15:38.
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Old 11-27-12, 15:43
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Rick Santorum, never passing up a chance to be a complete paranoid black-helicopter conspiracy nutjob.

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President-unelect Rick Santorum made his triumphant return to the Capitol on Monday afternoon and took up a brave new cause: He is opposing disabled people.

Specifically, Santorum, joined by Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah), declared his wish that the Senate reject the U.N. Convention on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities — a human rights treaty negotiated during George W. Bush’s administration and ratified by 126 nations, including China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

The former presidential candidate pronounced his “grave concerns” about the treaty, which forbids discrimination against people with AIDS, who are blind, who use wheelchairs and the like. “This is a direct assault on us,” he declared at a news conference.

Courageous? Or just contentious? The treaty requires virtually nothing of the United States. It essentially directs the other signatories to update their laws so that they more closely match the Americans with Disabilities Act. Even Lee thought it necessary to preface his opposition with the qualifier that “our concerns with this convention have nothing to do with any lack of concern for the rights of persons with disabilities.” Their concerns, rather, came from the dark world of U.N. conspiracy theories. The opponents argue that the treaty, like most everything the United Nations does, undermines American sovereignty — in this case via a plot to keep Americans from home-schooling their children and making other decisions about their well-being.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...58f_story.html
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Old 11-27-12, 15:45
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They developed their own polls that overrepresented their own constituency to create an image of Romney being ahead because that's what they wanted to believe - remember the "Unskewed" dude, who took the national polls and then reweighed all of them based on the Republican-friendly Rasmussen model? - and then you all believed it while mocking the Nate Silvers et al. who's models did actually reflect reality. That's not being wrong, that's creating an alternative reality more to your liking.
Fine. To what end? To look like fools now?

Rasmussen was pretty close in 2008, if not the closest. So somehow he got stupid over the last coupla years?

Nate Silver is the new messiah. Until he gets it wrong. Feel free to show everybody where I mocked the guy.

I think some very serious people with much to lose got it very wrong. I guess that too is not allowable to you. Strange to say the least.
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Old 11-27-12, 15:47
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um, yes, Scott, it is in fact crazy. We're not even at the level of the UK or Canada, let alone the Soviet Union. Might be time for the TP'ers and cons to take a deep breath. Oh but right, America is doomed if we re-elect Obama. I keep forgetting.


Yeah it is. I would think that should give you pause.

It did. That's why I posted it.
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Old 11-27-12, 15:52
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It did. That's why I posted it.
Forget Putin, this is what you should be more worried about, as it's more likely to happen.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/26/opinio...ity/index.html

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For too long, the Republicans have predicted apocalypse, debt crisis, the loss of freedom, the overthrow of the constitution. As the economy improves, that doom-saying will seem even more out of touch than ever.
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Old 11-27-12, 16:44
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His broader point of America repeating the Soviet mistake is debate-worthy. You don't like the comparison, so it is, of course, crazy. I would think that should give you pause.


I thought Putin's quotes were interesting. Odd is getting lectured on limited government free market capitalism from someone of Putin's background, don't you think?
As I said in the previous post it's a rather staggering case of historical amnesia to suggest that the US might repeat a Russian mistake. How far back do you think his understanding of the Soviet economy runs? Let alone of what Communism actually was.

At the time that Putin made that speech, Russia was run by oligarchs and mafia whose levels of corruption up until the financial crash had made Moscow one of the most expensive and decadent places to live in the world. Previously state owned and run enterprises, facilities and properties had been auctioned off to the wealthy at a fraction of what they were worth, then consolidated and returned to the public at vastly inflated prices. To hear Putin offering a bit of sobriety in that moment, while the US was mired in its military adventures was only a continuation of those practices by slightly different means.

There's very little worth debating there.

Last edited by aphronesis; 11-27-12 at 17:33.
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Old 11-27-12, 17:25
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Originally Posted by VeloCity View Post
They developed their own polls that overrepresented their own constituency to create an image of Romney being ahead because that's what they wanted to believe - remember the "Unskewed" dude, who took the national polls and then reweighed all of them based on the Republican-friendly Rasmussen model? - and then you all believed it while mocking the Nate Silvers et al. who's models did actually reflect reality. That's not being wrong, that's creating an alternative reality more to your liking.
Yeah those polls reminded me of the exit polls from the 2004 election.

Same delusional crap from the left back then when "you all" bought in and believed it while mocking the other polls.

Then again I don't remember Scott being a member during the time for the run up / polling on this forum. I thought he was out and did not have his account on.

You must know him better than what I thought.
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Old 11-27-12, 17:28
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Haven't been reading this thread much, but excellent post there Aphronesis.
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  #5249  
Old 11-27-12, 17:29
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As I said in the previous post it's quite another a rather staggering case of historical amnesia to suggest that the US might repeat a Russian mistake. How far back do you think his understanding of the Soviet economy runs? Let alone of what Communism actually was.

At the time that Putin made that speech, Russia was run by oligarchs and mafia whose levels of corruption up until the financial crash had made Moscow one of the most expensive and decadent places to live in the world. Previously state owned and run enterprises, facilities and properties had been auctioned off to the wealthy at a fraction of what they were worth, then consolidated and and returned to the public at vastly inflated prices. To hear Putin offering a bit of sobriety in that moment, while the US was mired in its military adventures was only a continuation of those practices by slightly different means.

There's very little worth debating there.
Oh. Alrighty then.

Funny how we are all so seemingly interested in what the rest of the world thinks of us until we don't like or agree with the sentiments.
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Old 11-27-12, 17:38
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Oh. Alrighty then.

Funny how we are all so seemingly interested in what the rest of the world thinks of us until we don't like or agree with the sentiments.
Not sure I follow. Does Russia have a right to criticize US militarism? Sure. But given their bitter experiences in Chechnya and Afghanistan, never mind their own interests in a twenty-first century reconfiguration of Middle East energy resources, this is not strictly a humanitarian intervention.

Russia's producers were also beginning to hurt in 2009 because the raw materials market had began to dry up for them in 2008, but that doesn't mean Putin's remarks had much to do with generating economic growth for the populace of the country.

Frankly, I don't really see what you're saying. It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with the sentiments; I simply don't see how they have much relevance to the current US situation?
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