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  #31  
Old 11-27-12, 14:47
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Benotti69 Benotti69 is offline
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As a Dutchman, I've been criticizing our athletes (mostly runners and cyclists) to go to SA for training. For supposedly good facilities, I cannot see justification of such remoteness. That said, some notorious high-profile athlete who'll barely leave SA to show up for a big race, have been greatly underperforming these past years.
While Vos is more than a bit intelligent (would have been a doc for long without her sports), she does live in a very enclosed environment. She may not see all that we on the forum get to see.
I say this, being one of her supporters, knowing that our nation has seen some very nasty cases of families drugging their teen sports stars. A speed skating dad with a very big mouth comes to mind.
Having seen Vos from a 14yo who would beat the boys on just class and technique, I think she might be a LeMond type of talent, possibly greater. And headstrong like nothing the sport has seen. Possibly due to family expectations/support but still.
When a Brit girl beats her in a Gieten cross, I tend to be more suspect of that performance...
While Vos maybe intelligent, i doubt she lives in a bubble.

I am still out on Vos. While there is little monetary incentive to dope in women's cycling is does not stop people.

To compare Vos to LeMond is a big comparison.
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  #32  
Old 11-27-12, 14:59
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Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
Steve Tilford criticises Vos for heading to south Africa to train for World XC champs.

It maybe Vos is way ahead of the competition becuase like others she has taken a dark path to glory.



stevetilford.com.

I agree that perception is as big a dot to connect as testing positive.
]
SteveTilford is an idiot. South Africa is a good choice for a Dutch rider in the winter as Holland is decidedly cold, and a lot of people in South Africa speak Dutch
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  #33  
Old 11-27-12, 15:04
benny_profane benny_profane is offline
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I'm not sold on Vos going to South Africa being suspicious. Is SAF the only place you can get doping products now? I may be naive but surely if she wanted the best drugs surely she would stay in Europe or the US?

In regard to Wyman beating her at Gietan being suspicious, it's maybe more a case of that being Vos's first race back and Wyman being on some excellent form.
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  #34  
Old 11-27-12, 16:14
Cloxxki Cloxxki is offline
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Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
While Vos maybe intelligent, i doubt she lives in a bubble.

I am still out on Vos. While there is little monetary incentive to dope in women's cycling is does not stop people.

To compare Vos to LeMond is a big comparison.
Big comparison for which? LeMond put the US on the map. Vos did the same with women's cycling. Also, already as a girl she was challenging the fastest boys in CX.
Imagine LeMond also got CX and Track titles in the same phase of his career as the TdF's. And feeling obliged to ditch speed skating and MTB to be able to focus sufficiently on the former 3. So many talents, so few days in a year...

The main point about training in SA perhaps should be the $67 wage the gold mine workers now get per month, AFTER they mortally-fought pay raise, on the land that was stolen from their ancestors, for the offspring of those who did that. You won't see white men doing the digging, I assure you.
Why did we see a SA boycott before, and not when they are (conf)using picket lines for execution lines?

So yeah, it's awesome the Dutch dare show our bleek faces there for leisurely activities such as training (not even real work) for in itself utterly useless sports.
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  #35  
Old 11-27-12, 16:55
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Big comparison for which? LeMond put the US on the map. Vos did the same with women's cycling. Also, already as a girl she was challenging the fastest boys in CX.
Imagine LeMond also got CX and Track titles in the same phase of his career as the TdF's. And feeling obliged to ditch speed skating and MTB to be able to focus sufficiently on the former 3. So many talents, so few days in a year...

The main point about training in SA perhaps should be the $67 wage the gold mine workers now get per month, AFTER they mortally-fought pay raise, on the land that was stolen from their ancestors, for the offspring of those who did that. You won't see white men doing the digging, I assure you.
Why did we see a SA boycott before, and not when they are (conf)using picket lines for execution lines?

So yeah, it's awesome the Dutch dare show our bleek faces there for leisurely activities such as training (not even real work) for in itself utterly useless sports.
Not sure what you are doing going all colonial in regards to my post. I never mentioned it. Seems to be a problem for you!

I am not going to compare Vos to LeMond. Womens cycling and mens are not comparable. Lemond rode against big talents, Vos against????

Why cant Vos stay in Europe and ride CX races as training for racing, instead of going 'training' for a race? That I definitely dont understand. That smells of doping.
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  #36  
Old 11-27-12, 17:26
benny_profane benny_profane is offline
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Since when has South Africa being linked with doping? Maybe I'm being dumb but I'd never heard of it being suspicious until that Tilford blog. It seems more likely she's just riding in warmer weather before the 'cross worlds in the New Year, maybe she's targeting the track Worlds too, who knows? She's also riding the Revolution track series in Manchester this weekend.
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  #37  
Old 11-27-12, 17:43
D-Queued D-Queued is offline
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Since when has South Africa being linked with doping? Maybe I'm being dumb but I'd never heard of it being suspicious until that Tilford blog. It seems more likely she's just riding in warmer weather before the 'cross worlds in the New Year, maybe she's targeting the track Worlds too, who knows? She's also riding the Revolution track series in Manchester this weekend.
South Africa is as clean as the snow on Cape Town's beaches.

Just ask David George.

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  #38  
Old 11-27-12, 18:04
silverrocket silverrocket is offline
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I'm afraid we should probably be suspicious of anyone that dominant. World Champ at 19? So was Jan Ullrich. He also never tested positive for doping (blood bag aside), and raced at the top for many years.

If there is not the same ubiquity of doping amongst women racers, one who choose to dope would be expected to see even larger relative gains. If that rider was already quite talented, those gains would let that rider completely dominate.
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  #39  
Old 11-27-12, 18:16
benny_profane benny_profane is offline
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Originally Posted by D-Queued View Post
South Africa is as clean as the snow on Cape Town's beaches.

Just ask David George.

Dave.
I'm not saying that no South African has ever doped, I just don't understand why it's any more suspicious to go there to train than it is to stay in Europe. I've just never heard to it referred to as doping hot spot before.

Last edited by benny_profane; 11-27-12 at 18:19.
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  #40  
Old 11-27-12, 18:23
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I'm not sure how one of the most dominant female riders in recent history should escape the same critiques/suspicions leveled at male riders. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt...she may be a Greg Lemond. Performing at her level between 2005 and the present hints at something more like a David Rebellin.
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