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  #5261  
Old 11-27-12, 19:42
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They've certainly been momentarily dampened and per that CNN article will be forced to retrench.

People all over the world have insight into this particular situation. That too is not that hard to understand and it wasn't at that time. Obama's course then was one of economic and short term pragmatism--by conventional measures. Not really Putin's mindset. The bigger question is why, if it's the elephant in the room, it isn't being taken on?

Not looking to win; that seems hardly the point. The article was an outright rant and nowhere near lucid in the sum of its points. You have to admit that?
I think i described it as 'thick rhetoric'... but rant works too.

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Obama's course then was one of economic and short term pragmatism
Pragmatism? Obama?? I don't think so.
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  #5262  
Old 11-27-12, 19:49
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I think i described it as 'thick rhetoric'... but rant works too.



Pragmatism? Obama?? I don't think so.
I was talking about 2008. I also said by conventional standards. You may personally and ideologically choose to disagree, but I can--although I'm not going to waste the time--find you lots of sources that will echo that.

Thought that was clear.

I'm pretty sure I've suggested this to you in the past: there's a narrative that has capital accumulation moving from western power to western power: Genoa, Venice, Amsterdam, UK, US where each overreaches its credit limits and territorial means, and eventually transitions into a full reliance on financialization only to be replaced by another city state or nation to which it is indebted and reliant upon until it is eventually forced to renegotiate its role in the world stage. The particulars may vary right now, and the period of transition is decades long from the first moment of overreach to that of crisis and then redefinition, but there's no reason to think it won't happen in this case.

Last edited by aphronesis; 11-28-12 at 10:06.
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  #5263  
Old 11-27-12, 22:35
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Nope. I'm consistent.

It's you who concerns yourself with European/Overseas sentiment.... only to become unconcerned when the/your narrative is not adhered to.
I couldn't care less what a leftist thug like Hugo Chavez thinks about the US either. Some leaders have credibility; others don't. Like, say, Vladimir Putin for example.
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  #5264  
Old 11-27-12, 22:40
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Pragmatism? Obama?? I don't think so.
Yep. I know it's hard for you guys to accept, but that's what Obama is, pragmatic. It's probably the main reason so many pie-in-the-sky ideologues on the left are disenchanted with the guy, because despite what conservatives like to believe, he's not a leftist ideologue. Not even close.

The problem is not Obama, Scott, it's that he has to work with a Republican party that has been largely hijacked by conservative ideologues who believe that compromise with Obama or the Dems is tantamount to treason. Pragmatism has all but disappeared on the right, and replaced by a strict adherence to ideological purity. I don't see too many Grover Norquist-type pledges on the D side of the aisle. The only way Washington is going to move forward is if pragmatic Republicans regain control of the party.
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Old 11-28-12, 02:06
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Yep. I know it's hard for you guys to accept, but that's what Obama is, pragmatic. It's probably the main reason so many pie-in-the-sky ideologues on the left are disenchanted with the guy, because despite what conservatives like to believe, he's not a leftist ideologue. Not even close.

The problem is not Obama, Scott, it's that he has to work with a Republican party that has been largely hijacked by conservative ideologues who believe that compromise with Obama or the Dems is tantamount to treason. Pragmatism has all but disappeared on the right, and replaced by a strict adherence to ideological purity. I don't see too many Grover Norquist-type pledges on the D side of the aisle. The only way Washington is going to move forward is if pragmatic Republicans regain control of the party.
This!
I consider myself to be a realistic liberal. I know that a lot of the ideals of true liberalism will not fly in our current environment, but having said that I have still found myself many times disappointed with Obama's "lack of backbone". Maybe that is just what he has had to do , but it seems for every 3 steps forward he takes at least 2 steps back, and still gets called a socialist by the bat**** crazies that are trying to destroy our country, or at least drag it back into the 1500's. Hopefully he will stop running for office this term and tell these idiots to eff-off, and try to make some real improvements.
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  #5266  
Old 11-28-12, 02:29
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I couldn't care less what a leftist thug like Hugo Chavez thinks about the US either. Some leaders have credibility; others don't. Like, say, Vladimir Putin for example.
Got to applaud you for this. Too many people these days will excuse absolutely anyone so long as they perceive them to be on roughly the same side. And many so called liberals in the US and around the world find common cause with for god knows what reason. Hes even more religious than Sarah Palin and barely as intelligent.
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  #5267  
Old 11-28-12, 08:31
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Putin is the greatest !



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMlsbB33QSc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q55Sx...eature=related

Last edited by Echoes; 11-28-12 at 08:34.
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  #5268  
Old 11-28-12, 10:39
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Originally Posted by Hugh Januss View Post
This!
I consider myself to be a realistic liberal. I know that a lot of the ideals of true liberalism will not fly in our current environment, but having said that I have still found myself many times disappointed with Obama's "lack of backbone". Maybe that is just what he has had to do , but it seems for every 3 steps forward he takes at least 2 steps back, and still gets called a socialist by the bat**** crazies that are trying to destroy our country, or at least drag it back into the 1500's. Hopefully he will stop running for office this term and tell these idiots to eff-off, and try to make some real improvements.
He is a Socialist right?

Well we know he is a Muslim in disguse, not a citizen of the united states (no birth certificate and no college records) and is on top of those two DewZies is a socialist.

Anyway why are we talking about this capitalist Hero Putin?
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  #5269  
Old 11-28-12, 14:38
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Anyway why are we talking about this capitalist Hero Putin?

Funny. It's hard to know, minute to minute, what's going to set this place off.

In other news;

Two-thirds of millionaires left Britain to avoid 50p tax rate

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In the 2009-10 tax year, more than 16,000 people declared an annual income of more than £1 million to HM Revenue and Customs.
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It is believed that rich Britons moved abroad or took steps to avoid paying the new levy by reducing their taxable incomes.
And;

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Far from raising funds, it actually cost the UK £7 billion in lost tax revenue.
But soaking the "rich" (they know who they are) has never been about raising revenue, has it?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-tax-rate.html
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Last edited by Scott SoCal; 11-28-12 at 17:19.
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  #5270  
Old 11-28-12, 14:54
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Originally Posted by VeloCity View Post
Yep. I know it's hard for you guys to accept, but that's what Obama is, pragmatic. It's probably the main reason so many pie-in-the-sky ideologues on the left are disenchanted with the guy, because despite what conservatives like to believe, he's not a leftist ideologue. Not even close.

The problem is not Obama, Scott, it's that he has to work with a Republican party that has been largely hijacked by conservative ideologues who believe that compromise with Obama or the Dems is tantamount to treason. Pragmatism has all but disappeared on the right, and replaced by a strict adherence to ideological purity. I don't see too many Grover Norquist-type pledges on the D side of the aisle. The only way Washington is going to move forward is if pragmatic Republicans regain control of the party.

Right

Quote:
On Tuesday, Senate Majority Whip **** Durbin (D-Ill.) went even further with a fresh push for negotiators to keep all entitlement discussions out of the fiscal cliff talks, and instead keep the focus solely on taxes and automatic spending cuts.

For many Democrats, these entitlement programs are part of their core identity — aggressively protecting the social safety net programs created by the New Deal and the Great Society is as much a part of the progressive worldview as tax cuts and smaller government are for conservatives. And if President Barack Obama reaches a bipartisan deal with GOP leaders that cuts entitlements, he can expect a rebellion from his allies on the Hill — that is, unless he wins what they consider major concessions from Republicans on taxes.

“Let them put revenue on the table first,” veteran Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) told POLITICO. “I don’t want to hear, ‘Oh well, we’ll close loopholes.’ What the hell does that mean? That’s nothing.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories...304.html?hp=l3

So when Durbin and Mikulski draw a line in the sand they are principled? Did I get that right?

Same as it ever was. Put revenue on the table, THEN we'll talk cuts, which never happen. Everybody has seen this show before.
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