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  #41  
Old 11-29-12, 15:23
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DirtyWorks DirtyWorks is online now
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vaughters? i'll be damned.
he claims cycling is clean already. so what does he want to change?
bad news for the CCN initiative, good news for Garmin's PR.
I agree this is more PR for JV.

I still don't know what they hope to accomplish. Wag their finger at the UCI? I suppose they could go to the IOC and try to force changes, but Hein seems like a pretty powerful guy and the IOC likes the anti-doping controversy system they have now.

If they want to do something, then set up a parallel federation with WADA. Except, as a UCI Pro, all riders are forbidden from racing in another federation... So, now what? More finger wagging?
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  #42  
Old 11-29-12, 15:31
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I've never heard him say anything in that direction. Have you?
Remember the breakaway league project?
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  #43  
Old 11-29-12, 17:32
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My comment to Velonation : " Ashenden & Fuller are investing time and effort to help the " Cycling Public " to have a say in the way forward for Cycle Racing ! They deserve OUR Respect for that effort ! Agree that the eventual leadership should be composed of those that are able to point the finger at existing problems and lead the way forward . That there will be some with questionable backgrounds joining is certain , but " Catherine Marsal ( Past , French Womens'champ ?) is only the first of many that will deride these worthwhile efforts . When i look at the response to petitions as shpwn in this tweet :

" These petitions need YOUR support ! http://www.change.org/en-GB/petition...stralia#invite … and http://www.change.org/en-GB/petition...share_petition … What are YOU waiting for ? Change only comes when helped!

I WONDER if there are FANS out there willing to help ?

ALL this " clinic " does is pontificate ! Are there any here willing to put their shoulder to the wheel ? NO !

There should be a POLL if not more serious indications of SUPPORT !

So many of you think little of me and my " petitions " that i will leave YOU to lead !
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  #44  
Old 11-29-12, 17:41
JV1973 JV1973 is offline
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I've never heard him say anything in that direction. Have you?

For him to join the movement is suspect, to say the least, though far from surprising of course. Smells, again, like PR.
PR? Maybe. As in, bad PR. Potentially damaging to my team's possibility of a WT license type PR? Absolutely.

You really need to figure out what "PR" is before using the term. I know it's a bit advanced for your level of thinking. Mr. Sniper. But keep trying!

I was asked to attend, and so I will, despite the pitfalls and advice not to attend.... by folks charged with looking after PR.
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  #45  
Old 11-29-12, 17:47
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PR? Maybe. As in, bad PR. Potentially damaging to my team's possibility of a WT license type PR? Absolutely.

You really need to figure out what "PR" is before using the term. I know it's a bit advanced for your level of thinking. Mr. Sniper. But keep trying!

I was asked to attend, and so I will, despite the pitfalls and advice not to attend.... by folks charged with looking after PR.
Hey, since you're here, what do you think Bugno is doing there? Granted, he's the president of the cyclists union, but having him on board is like having McQuaid on board because he's the president of the international cycling union.
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  #46  
Old 11-29-12, 17:52
JV1973 JV1973 is offline
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Hey, since you're here, what do you think Bugno is doing there? Granted, he's the president of the cyclists union, but having him on board is like having McQuaid on board because he's the president of the international cycling union.

I can't speak for the organizer. I don't know. Bugno does his best to protect rider rights with limited resources. Maybe that's why?
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  #47  
Old 11-29-12, 17:57
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I can't speak for the organizer. I don't know. Bugno does his best to protect rider rights with limited resources. Maybe that's why?
Bugno is firmly in the "nothing to see here" camp. He's all for omertà. With him on board, this looks less like a serious attempt to make things right and more like a coup.

I know you're not in charge, and I'm also aware this isn't only about anti-doping, but that's how I see it. I'm seriously concerned that movements like this or the MPCC will be hijacked and defused by PR-inclined weasels.
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  #48  
Old 11-29-12, 18:07
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
vaughters? i'll be damned.
he claims cycling is clean already. so what does he want to change?
bad news for the CCN initiative, good news for Garmin's PR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
...
The UCI. Obviously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
I've never heard him say anything in that direction. Have you?

For him to join the movement is suspect, to say the least, though far from surprising of course. Smells, again, like PR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper View Post
Hi Sniper,
You are so focused on trying to get a head shot of JV that you snipped to quote JV out o context - the answers to the questions you asked were in the piece you linked to.



Quote:
.....JV
Because everyone wonders if their money is being used efficiently and correctly. Right now you have the governing body of the sport, which is promoting the sport worldwide and running its own races, and they do anti-doping. There should be greater funding and greater separation of church and state.
That’s not to say that Francesca Rossi shouldn’t be doing what she’s doing. She should absolutely do it. But maybe ultimate auditory power comes from WADA or a third party. UCI anti-doping is doing a good job, but when I go to team managers and say, ‘We should put in more money,’ I almost get spit in my face. They’re like ‘**** that. Why would I put in more money to an organization that only seeks to hurt my team? Not through anti-doping, but by forcing us to do races they make money off of, by imposing regulations that are counterproductive to sponsorship and to innovation in sport. This is an organization that is fundamentally hurting my organization over and over again, and I’m supposed to contribute more money to THEM? Forget about it!’ There are conflicts of interest that need to be resolved. I think every team in cycling would be willing to double their contribution and the race promoters would too if they absolutely trusted the process. That doesn’t mean it’s perfect, but they trust the process. It’s irrelevant whether there’s truth to it, but if there’s not trust to it it doesn’t work.

That raises the specter of corruption. Is that a legit question?
I don’t know. I honestly don’t know what to think about that. There’s the story of the 2001 positive [Landis alleges that the UCI helped cover up an Armstrong positive from that year]. Listen, I don’t know what happened, but what I do know is that if you want to prevent criticism, you move ultimate power to a third party and it eliminates the possibility of that criticism. Why are we not doing that? Why do we want to have that criticism? I don’t know. Let’s prevent anyone ever thinking that’s the case at all.
.....
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  #49  
Old 11-29-12, 18:09
JV1973 JV1973 is offline
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Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
Bugno is firmly in the "nothing to see here" camp. He's all for omertà. With him on board, this looks less like a serious attempt to make things right and more like a coup.

I know you're not in charge, and I'm also aware this isn't only about anti-doping, but that's how I see it. I'm seriously concerned that movements like this or the MPCC will be hijacked and defused by PR-inclined weasels.
The lack of a defined direction and leader, along with everyone and their brother standing up and imploring something or other is getting a bit odd. I agree, the risk of cycling jumping abroad a runaway PR train is high. I have said it before and will say it again, I wish WADA would step in, and redirect things in an interim and professional way. We can't have 8 sets of groups with 8 sets of rules, each trying to be even more "zero-tolerancer awesomeness" than the next. Won't work.
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  #50  
Old 11-29-12, 18:13
sniper sniper is online now
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Originally Posted by JV1973 View Post
PR? Maybe. As in, bad PR. Potentially damaging to my team's possibility of a WT license type PR? Absolutely.

You really need to figure out what "PR" is before using the term. I know it's a bit advanced for your level of thinking. Mr. Sniper. But keep trying!

I was asked to attend, and so I will, despite the pitfalls and advice not to attend.... by folks charged with looking after PR.
to be sure, I think this is a great initiative. As hrotha says, it's not only about anti-doping, but more particularly about removing phat and verdrug'm.
and yes, i think this might be a good way of achieving that particular aim: from the inside (cf. dr. maserati's post a few pages back). So in that sense, your and Bugno's membership is very welcome.

I don't think you'll loose your licence. You've got the plate "anti-doping" hanging firmly around your neck, so any UCI action against Garmin will be seen as UCI being anti-anti-doping. I assume you know that as well.

thirdly, I think you've said a lot of stuff that I would classify as BS: that cycling is clean, that cycling is cleaner, that a truce was called for in 2008, that Sky are dominating the GTs on paniagua and marginal gains. If all that is true, the UCI under Pat McQuaid have simply done a great job. And now you want him out?

Last edited by sniper; 11-29-12 at 18:16.
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