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  #51  
Old 11-29-12, 19:16
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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Bugno is firmly in the "nothing to see here" camp. He's all for omertà. With him on board, this looks less like a serious attempt to make things right and more like a coup.

I know you're not in charge, and I'm also aware this isn't only about anti-doping, but that's how I see it. I'm seriously concerned that movements like this or the MPCC will be hijacked and defused by PR-inclined weasels.
Yes & no.
Bugno's attendance did raise an eyebrow- but ultimately, if there is to be change in cycling then all stakeholders need to be involved.
Firstly- this is just a summit and appears to be more an exchange to tease out solutions - but if (further down the road) any measures were sought without participation from those involved it would be nothing more than a talking shop.

Ultimately - there are enough diverse interests and broad views attending that it cannot be used as merely PR or self interest.
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  #52  
Old 11-29-12, 19:30
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hrotha hrotha is offline
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The lack of a defined direction and leader, along with everyone and their brother standing up and imploring something or other is getting a bit odd. I agree, the risk of cycling jumping abroad a runaway PR train is high. I have said it before and will say it again, I wish WADA would step in, and redirect things in an interim and professional way. We can't have 8 sets of groups with 8 sets of rules, each trying to be even more "zero-tolerancer awesomeness" than the next. Won't work.
Agreed on that, and good to see you share some of my concerns.

I'm willing to wait a bit and see what comes out of this, but I figure all the players are aware that there's many people out there just looking to make the most out of this for not so honorable reasons. Be careful out there, will ya.
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  #53  
Old 11-29-12, 19:41
theyoungest theyoungest is offline
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PR? Maybe. As in, bad PR. Potentially damaging to my team's possibility of a WT license type PR? Absolutely.
I don't expect the UCI to refuse Garmin a WT license. Wouldn't reflect well on their attempts to deal with the doping problem (if any).

MPCC seems too Francocentric, this Change Cycling Now thing seems too Anglocentric. Then there's the three Dutch teams coming up with their own policy. Why can't you all just get along?
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  #54  
Old 11-29-12, 20:05
Dr. Maserati Dr. Maserati is offline
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I don't expect the UCI to refuse Garmin a WT license. Wouldn't reflect well on their attempts to deal with the doping problem (if any).

MPCC seems too Francocentric, this Change Cycling Now thing seems too Anglocentric. Then there's the three Dutch teams coming up with their own policy. Why can't you all just get along?
There have been a lot of legitimate concerns raised here and on twitter.

Overall when listening to Walsh or LeMond or JV etc I was wishing these guys could get around a table and thrash out some common consensus.
This is what the summit appears to be doing.

Then I was thinking who is holding these people to account? What is their objective? Is it PR? An attempt at a break away? Etc
In one sense there is nearly to many interests (and a lot of mistrust) - so I welcome that there is such a broad range of people there.

The very reason for this summit and why there are so many interests is because of a lack of trust and credibility in cycling and in particular the UCI.
Having people like Kimmage, Walsh, Ashenden (& yes, JV) will I believe allay people's concerns.
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  #55  
Old 11-29-12, 20:15
arjanh arjanh is offline
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Originally Posted by theyoungest View Post
MPCC seems too Francocentric, this Change Cycling Now thing seems too Anglocentric. Then there's the three Dutch teams coming up with their own policy. Why can't you all just get along?
Why would that be a bad thing? As long as it cleans up cycling, I'm fine with any approach. Plus, the more approaches are tried, the higher the chance that a solid one is found.
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  #56  
Old 11-29-12, 20:35
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BroDeal BroDeal is offline
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Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
Bugno is firmly in the "nothing to see here" camp. He's all for omertÃ*. With him on board, this looks less like a serious attempt to make things right and more like a coup.

I know you're not in charge, and I'm also aware this isn't only about anti-doping, but that's how I see it. I'm seriously concerned that movements like this or the MPCC will be hijacked and defused by PR-inclined weasels.
Jeebus! Bugno retired fourteen years ago. Yeah, the 1990 Giro was ridiculous, but his experience and a decade plus of reflection might have given him an idea or two about how things could be improved.

Besides, he looks like the fifth Beatle.

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Last edited by BroDeal; 11-29-12 at 20:52.
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  #57  
Old 11-29-12, 20:49
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Jeebus! Bugno retired fourteen years ago. Yeah, the 1990 Giro was ridiculous, but his experience and a decade plus of relfection might have given him an idea or two about how things could be improved.

Besides, he looks like the fifth Beatle.

Bugno hates Lance. He has got my vote right there.

How in gods hell did Pellazotti get selected for bio violation whilst several others did not?

Selective anti-doping is what Bugno is here to stop.
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  #58  
Old 11-29-12, 21:20
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hrotha hrotha is offline
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Jeebus! Bugno retired fourteen years ago. Yeah, the 1990 Giro was ridiculous, but his experience and a decade plus of reflection might have given him an idea or two about how things could be improved.
So I take it you haven't been following what he's said on the Armstrong case.
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  #59  
Old 11-29-12, 21:24
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I don't expect the UCI to refuse Garmin a WT license. Wouldn't reflect well on their attempts to deal with the doping problem (if any).
don't bother. that's just JV insulting our intelligence again.
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  #60  
Old 11-29-12, 21:29
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Originally Posted by Dr. Maserati View Post
The very reason for this summit and why there are so many interests is because of a lack of trust and credibility in cycling and in particular the UCI.
Having people like Kimmage, Walsh, Ashenden (& yes, JV) will I believe allay people's concerns.
JV does not exactly show a lack of trust in cycling.
as of 2008 winning GTs clean has been possible.
Sky dominated the 2012 GTs on paniagua.
That's JV's conviction. If true, Pat did a fantastic job. Period.
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