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  #9531  
Old 12-06-12, 07:05
ianfra ianfra is offline
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Nothing at all suspicious about the Sky success. Sometimes you have to look beyond doping and at the facts and the integrity of those involved. Clean team. Happy about that are you? Or do you really want them to be dirty, eh?
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  #9532  
Old 12-06-12, 07:21
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Originally Posted by martinvickers View Post
it would certainly not be constructive, but I'm not sure it would void the credibility of the preceding maths.
You are enabling the name-calling idiocy by letting the end of his post slide.

I could be wrong. Right/Wrong I don't care. I care that we now have some more information to work with thanks to your post about the sport groups.
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  #9533  
Old 12-06-12, 07:29
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The OG track program is very frustrating - IOC very stubborn, but there is word cycling may get two more events come 2016, both on the track - either kilo or IP
So, we don't know how the IOC quantifies the performance of their various sporting events, but apparently cycling did well enough for the IOC to consider expanding the events.
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  #9534  
Old 12-06-12, 07:32
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Originally Posted by ianfra View Post
Nothing at all suspicious about the Sky success. Sometimes you have to look beyond doping and at the facts and the integrity of those involved. Clean team. Happy about that are you? Or do you really want them to be dirty, eh?
That's it. You have to not only ignore Sky's performance being so outrageous that people refer to the team as UK Postal and even Sky riders use the comparison but outright deny that there is anything suspicious at all. Put your faith in those who may have an interest in lying. Faith, man, faith. That's the ticket. This strategy has worked so well in the past. This time, like every time until the truth is revealed, it's different.
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  #9535  
Old 12-06-12, 09:11
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Originally Posted by DirtyWorks View Post
So, we don't know how the IOC quantifies the performance of their various sporting events, but apparently cycling did well enough for the IOC to consider expanding the events.
Worth noting that the IOC has historically been as dodgy as they come in terms of sports governing bodies. If they think that there's money to be made from more cycling, they will be after that money for themselves, not for the UCI.
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  #9536  
Old 12-06-12, 09:24
Wallace and Gromit Wallace and Gromit is offline
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This thread is filled with the various things that people are skeptical about. It is not any one thing. It is Wiggins AND Froome AND Porte AND Rogers AND Lienders AND Evans getting outperformed by Rogers AND et cetera. Assign a chance of being kosher to each item. Even if each item has a very high chance of being innocent, when all the items are multiplied together, the combined chance makes Sky's performance unlikely.
Great post, particularly the bit I've quoted.

I'd only disagree with the inclusion of "Evans being outperformed by Rogers". Firstly, Evans was cr*p this year relative to last year. He was outperformed by his own team-mate amongst others in the Tour. Secondly, I don't think objective analysis supports a conclusion that Evans was outperformed by Rogers. Rogers made tactical bursts that Evans didn't/couldn't follow, but these inevitably cost Rogers a lot, which is why he generally finished minutes down on Evans in the key stages.
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  #9537  
Old 12-06-12, 09:41
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
Equating Einstein, his relativity theory and lack of any personal attack, with any post in this forum as a means to justify embedded personal attacks in said posts.

Gotcha.
If you can't understand example by hyperbole, I ain't gonna help ya.

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I am very glad Sky are still debating sending Wiggo to the Tour as leader. Would like to get another chance for him to be pinged.
Well, admitting the bias is the first step, so congratulations on that.

As to waiting in hope, well, good luck to you, everybody needs a hobby...
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  #9538  
Old 12-06-12, 09:57
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Wonder if Froome dawg will hang around and get treated like a second class citizen again.

Or maybe say to hell with it and ditch Wiggins on a TdF climb and put time into him.

Be interesting to see how Rogers goes at Saxo too. Given the close similarities between Sky and US Postal, you'd be half expecting one of their vacating elites to get pinged in the 12-36 months following.

Such a shame they let Rogers go without the bonus of pointing to his departure as a clear indication of the relentless pursuit of their ZTP. That would have been really convincing.

Still Shane Sutton to deal with though. Wonder if that is ever going to get handled properly or just continue on its merry, unbelievable way.

Plenty of things to look forward to.
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  #9539  
Old 12-06-12, 09:59
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If you can't understand example by hyperbole, I ain't gonna help ya.
I think Stephen Hawking would have been a better choice is all. Being British and all.
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  #9540  
Old 12-06-12, 10:08
martinvickers martinvickers is offline
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You are enabling the name-calling idiocy by letting the end of his post slide.

I could be wrong. Right/Wrong I don't care. I care that we now have some more information to work with thanks to your post about the sport groups.
Always happy to help, Dirty. I like actual information, too - indeed, it's the demand for information/evidence over pure conjecture and frankly, in many cases, devout wishful thinking has got me the most abuse in this forum!! If the conversation revolves around info, you will usually find I try to explore that, and look that up, etc- it's when, and you are by no means key offender in this, the whole thing turns into an emotional bilious shambles that I get tetchy.

So i will readily admit, for once, I went right down what might be called the sarcasm/satire route - i don't think it's off topic to do so, i was still debunking possible accusations, and it was great fun - and a couple of the more snide full time anti-sky, anti-brit posters in here took sudden hurt-feely offence, which given how they act generally in here, was kinda funny too. seems a lot of mockers don't like being mocked. Who'd have thunk it.

But let's return to normal programming. The IOC look at 'programmes' for each 'sport' and 'discipline' every few years. you may remember Golf and rugby sevens got in last time, and Karate and Squash are front runners now.

In addition, IOC look into programmes, and attempt to agree with the Federations the number of events, competitors, officials and venues - with a key eye on cost sustainability and gender equality (gymnastics excluded - apparently, and I asked!, you'll never see the olympic Men's beam or women's pomell) - gender equality is their 'thing' right now...

Now every sport makes compromises of a sort - even the biggies like athletics (no cross-country event), and swimming (no 50m other than freestyle, only one of the long distance events per gender) anf gymnastics (no individual apparatus for rythmic, no aerobic gymnastics (thank god) and no double trampoline or acrobatic gymnastics)

UCI made a relatively big sacrifice to gender equality in 2012 - they ditched a rather large number of track events (by ioc standards) to allow for women's team events.

The UCI world track programme is 19 events - the olympics only 10 - in addition there are no 'freestyle' (artistic) bike events, and no mountain bike downhill. For a Group 2 sport (one of the main ones after Athletics) that's pretty limited.

The UCI have been trying to get more track events since they brought in BMX (it was brought in at the moment IOC were getting most worried about X-Games) - not least because velodromes are specialist and expensive buildings. As are purpose built BMX tracks.

Byt he way, I'm reliably tiold the worst offender for expensive specialist buildings is the canoe slalom course - incredibly expensive, environmentally difficult, fit for absolutely nothing by canoe slalom - of which there are 4 olympic events - only 4! wheras canoe sprint, just reuses the rowing course - IOC like that kinda thing!

So in that sense, the new events thing is not new, and the Brit dominance in it is actually unhelpful - IOC don't like giving out 'certain' medals to already successful teams.

So are Pat and Hein corrupt b*stards?

Abso-f***ing-lutely, as Mr Big used to say.

Are they using their olympic contacts, particularly Pat Hickey, to smooze something out of the IOC?

I'd be shocked if they weren't - the Keirin is a great fun event, but how it got in the games is a disgrace - a disgrace i might add, uncovered by British TV journalists if memory serves...

Would it suit TeamGB to see the existing track programme expanded to include say Individual pursuit and Kilo?

definitely, especially since GB - who are much more about science than tactics - specialises at these 'time trial' style events.

Does a Sky/Wiggins win in he tour de france help that fight?

Not one bit.

1. IOC don't like the number of cycling golds GB wins as it is - they are quite open about it - they don't like China's divers either, for the same reason - it's not going to just give more events if they won't be competitive - burgeoning GB dominance on the road only going to make them more jittery.

2. Velodromes are usually easily enough sold out at the games - small packed atmospheric venues - there's no financial gain, because they won't be allowed extra sessions - it'll be the same bums on seats - just a half hour more each per session. Frankly if the IOC had a a titter of wit, it would beg UCI to run all nineteen events over a whole week - hell, even invent a few new ones - anytihng to increase the room for good ticket sales - but that's not the IOC way...
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