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  #711  
Old 11-14-12, 05:51
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42x16ss 42x16ss is offline
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Really? 10,000km and the spokes will be flexy like spaghetti? You didn't read 100,000km by mistake? The front wheel is as stiff as the day I bought it. The rear remains true but pings. I would like to know if your claim is correct.
After being de-stressed when the wheel was disassembled and re-stressed when it was rebuilt, yes. In my experience anyway.

GM, BK and others probably build more wheels in a week than I do in a year and may have another theory though.
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  #712  
Old 11-14-12, 12:52
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Wait, you are saying that the wheel was rebuilt with spokes that are 10000km old? That's your problem right there. They will be as flexy as spaghetti!
Stainless steel wire doesn't get flexy with age. If it did, the wheel would be out of true.
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  #713  
Old 11-15-12, 00:23
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I would appreciate any thoughts as to what may be the cause of a problem I'm having with a rear wheel. The rim was replaced and re-laced with the same spokes and hub. After around 200km of riding, a pinging sound started to occur when under load (climbing). It's not a high pitched sound but somewhat dull.

Anyway, I went back to the builder and he suggested the spokes may need a drop of oil where they cross (built two cross with DT Aerolite spokes, 24 spokes and Kinlin XR-270 rim). I had checked the spoke tension with my Park gauge and the non-drive side spokes seemed very low (not even registering on the gauge, i.e. zero, although with tyres mounted, while the drive side was between an 11 and 12 which equated to around 100kgf). I mentioned to the builder that the non-drive side spokes seemed to have little tension and he tightened then a little.

I put the wheel back on the bike and oiled the spoke cross-over points and it was fine for another 200km then today the pinging was back. Non-drive side spoke tension is 2-3 on the Park gauge and a few spokes are still close to zero. So, could the pinging be caused by too low spoke tension on the non-drive side? The wheel is still true.
To me this does sound like the tension is too low. You should be at about 120-130kgf on the drive side and around 60-65 on the nds. A spoke won't spaghetti as it ages, it will stretch out and brake first. I wouldn't have rebuilt with those spokes either, too many miles on them for a low spoke count wheel. Remember the less spokes you have the faster they wear out. If it still does make a noise after realizing a proper final tension, drop linseed oil or loctite on the head (tire side) of each nipple, could be a bad seat in one the spoke holes.
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  #714  
Old 11-15-12, 02:13
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To me this does sound like the tension is too low. You should be at about 120-130kgf on the drive side and around 60-65 on the nds. A spoke won't spaghetti as it ages, it will stretch out and brake first. I wouldn't have rebuilt with those spokes either, too many miles on them for a low spoke count wheel. Remember the less spokes you have the faster they wear out. If it still does make a noise after realizing a proper final tension, drop linseed oil or loctite on the head (tire side) of each nipple, could be a bad seat in one the spoke holes.
I re-tensioned the wheel today. Increased the very low non-drive side tension (recall some spokes had a zero reading on the Park gauge) and adjusted the drive side as appropriate to keep true. Test rode it briefly around the block including some very short hills and no pinging at all. I will be keen to see if the spoke tension is maintained after some longer rides. Thanks for your help.
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  #715  
Old 12-05-12, 02:39
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Can someone please explain why the drive side pulling spokes should be installed heads out? I'm planning on building a set of wheels with rear 24h laced 2 x both sides. The non-drive pulling spokes should also be heads out, correct?
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  #716  
Old 12-07-12, 13:56
Euskadi Euskadi is offline
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Question Spoke hole and spoke gauge

Hi everyone,

Will Dt Competitions 1.8/1.6 be fine with 2.3 (dura ace 7900) spoke hole diameter? I mean, not too thin?

thanks
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  #717  
Old 12-07-12, 15:18
JayKosta JayKosta is offline
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Can someone please explain why the drive side pulling spokes should be installed heads out? I'm planning on building a set of wheels with rear 24h laced 2 x both sides. The non-drive pulling spokes should also be heads out, correct?
==========================================
Interesting question....

I'm not a wheelbuilder, but it seems there is quite a bit of 'personal preference' about various lacing patterns and techiques - it probably depends on what has worked best for each builder.

My thoughts -

'Head out' gives the straightest 'pull angle' for the spoke because it reduces the 'bracing angle'.

'Head in' places less stress on the spoke bend because some of the stress is absorbed by the spoke pressing on the hub flange.

The lacing pattern for non-pulling (left side) spokes is mostly a cosmetic concern. It depends on what 'look' you like - I doubt there is noticeable performance difference.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
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  #718  
Old 12-08-12, 12:52
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Originally Posted by biker jk View Post
Can someone please explain why the drive side pulling spokes should be installed heads out? I'm planning on building a set of wheels with rear 24h laced 2 x both sides. The non-drive pulling spokes should also be heads out, correct?
They shouldn't be, necessarily. Depends on how the wheel was built initially. Get 3 true wheelbuilders in a room and ask about inside or outside pulling, get 4 opinions. If the hub is new, I would build heads in for the pulling spokes. How I build all wheels, outside pulling or heads in, pulling spokes, both sides.

A triangle with a wider 'base' is a more stable triangle. For a wheel, using the hub, and the rim and the spokes as the sides of a triangle, the pulling spokes being outside the hub flange makes the 'base' wider..how it was explained to me in 1985 by Mike Howard, my teacher in Colley Ave bike shop in Norfolk.

But fine and dandy wheels can be made with spokes 'inside pulling'.

Last edited by Bustedknuckle; 12-08-12 at 12:55.
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  #719  
Old 12-09-12, 22:48
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Much appreciated to the two previous posters. I will build the rear heads in for the pulling spokes. This seems to be favoured by most wheel builders (eye-balling some photos) and I like the theory about better bracing angle and less stress on the spoke bend.
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  #720  
Old 12-10-12, 13:11
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Originally Posted by Euskadi View Post
Hi everyone,

Will Dt Competitions 1.8/1.6 be fine with 2.3 (dura ace 7900) spoke hole diameter? I mean, not too thin?

thanks
Altho 2.3..my experience with DA hubs is the 2mm spoke is pretty snug..but if you are concerned or if it seems like there is a lot of slop with a 1.8mm spoke, use spoke washers...add 1mm to the length also.

If you are asking if 15/16 Comps will work for you...well, they are thinner than 14/15. There is no real weight savings, but they will work as long as the other 2 strikes are not committed..light rim, low spoke count.
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