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  #1851  
Old 12-09-12, 09:21
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LaFlorecita LaFlorecita is online now
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I find it strange that someone whose own belief in himself is so shaky as those pages suggest is hard enough mentally to win. He sounds like a belligerent teenager.

That said, I think it is refreshing that we have a real character at the top of the sport!
Andy says hello
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  #1852  
Old 12-09-12, 10:43
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Ryo Hazuki Ryo Hazuki is offline
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
Could you please learn to read for once? It's tiring to keep responding to someone who can't understand the most simple things.

Andy Schleck is much more talented hence gets better results.

JVDB is less talented hence gets worse results.

Yet JVDB at least does well in stage races like Dauphiné, Pais Vasco, Catalunya, Algarve while Andy Schleck is pathetically bad in every race he does except the Ardennes and the Tour.
it's you again who clealry doesn't understand. cancellara has (used to) no problems riding for a supertalent like andy schleck because he could perform outside of the tour (lbl win for instance) and could win the tour but someone like jvdb who is far from a supertalent puts everything on one tour and then crashes or finishes 4th. cancellara makes perfect sense and not hypocrite at all. you were too quick to defend one of your belgians again
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  #1853  
Old 12-09-12, 12:16
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El Pistolero El Pistolero is offline
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it's you again who clealry doesn't understand. cancellara has (used to) no problems riding for a supertalent like andy schleck because he could perform outside of the tour (lbl win for instance) and could win the tour but someone like jvdb who is far from a supertalent puts everything on one tour and then crashes or finishes 4th. cancellara makes perfect sense and not hypocrite at all. you were too quick to defend one of your belgians again
Cancellara didn't ride at LBL. So that only leaves the Tour. Hilarious how people still think he cares about his teammates after abandoning them in the Vuelta 2010. Wasn't in much form in 2011 Tour and abandoned in the 2012 Tour.

Oh and Contador doesn't need Cancellara, he has already won 7/8 GTs despite Cancellara helping his rivals. Matteo Tossato is a much cheaper buy and did a good enough job in the Giro 2011.
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horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato
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Last edited by El Pistolero; 12-09-12 at 12:19.
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  #1854  
Old 12-09-12, 12:33
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Sarcasm? Which team had comparable to sky resource and could damage Wiggins?? There was no any team.
Neither sarcasm, nor was I talking about teams. You're the one saying Wiggins would've won the Tour without helpers since his TT results would have been enough to keep him ahead. Or did I misinterpret you?

In my opinion, that's ludicrous.
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  #1855  
Old 12-09-12, 13:46
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Really? I am inclined to agree with Airstream here. Neither Nibali nor JVDB are known for their fiery accelerations and Wiggins kept all of them in check with tempo riding.

I cannot imagine them taking 4+ minutes on Wiggins in the 'mountains' the Tour 2012 offered.

Nibali lost the tour by 6'19"
JVDB lost the tour by 10'15" (!)

...
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On the cycling side of life; our preseason training camp was very productive, good training, some time to get to know the new guys (great group we've got) and take care of many of the off-the-bike requirements of being a professional cyclist; testing new equipment, meeting with new partners and equipment suppliers, throwing oranges at Phil Gilbert, etc..

Last edited by Panda Claws; 12-09-12 at 13:52.
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  #1856  
Old 12-09-12, 14:05
Dutchsmurf Dutchsmurf is offline
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Really? I am inclined to agree with Airstream here. Neither Nibali nor JVDB are known for their fiery accelerations and Wiggins kept all of them in check with tempo riding.

I cannot imagine them taking 4+ minutes on Wiggins in the 'mountains' the Tour 2012 offered.

Nibali lost the tour by 6'19"
JVDB lost the tour by 10'15" (!)
But Airstream said Wiggins could have done that without strong helpers too. While it was those strong helpers who did all the tempo riding Wiggins needed to win. You say Wiggins kept him in check with tempo riding, but that isn't completely true. It was Sky that kept them in check. Without helpers Wiggins would have either ride on the front all the time himself, or you get a stop and go kind of riding with people attacking and being brought back. There is no way of saying if Wiggins would still have won, but he sure would have had to work a lot harder for it.
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  #1857  
Old 12-09-12, 14:08
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Originally Posted by cineteq View Post
Neither sarcasm, nor was I talking about teams. You're the one saying Wiggins would've won the Tour without helpers since his TT results would have been enough to keep him ahead. Or did I misinterpret you?

In my opinion, that's ludicrous.
Yes, he could have won without such strong helpers as he had. I just don't see other teams which could arrange real mountain massacre in the Tour but Sky. Only Radioshack could become such a team, but they had no attacking climber.

For example, Froome pulled Wiggins at Peyragudes, but say Nibali and VdB extracted the same value as Wiggins from that because Froome made other riders drop. But Nibali was dropped too. It directly characterizes his level compared to Wiggins.

High steady tempo is not so spectacular maybe but sometimes it can drop any climber too. Absolutely anyone.

Last edited by airstream; 12-09-12 at 14:14.
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  #1858  
Old 12-09-12, 14:20
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For example, Froome pulled Wiggins at Peyragudes, but say Nibali and VdB extracted the same value as Wiggins from that because Froome made other riders drop. But Nibali was dropped too. It directly characterizes his level compared to Wiggins.
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Originally Posted by Panda Claws View Post
Really? I am inclined to agree with Airstream here. Neither Nibali nor JVDB are known for their fiery accelerations and Wiggins kept all of them in check with tempo riding.

I cannot imagine them taking 4+ minutes on Wiggins in the 'mountains' the Tour 2012 offered.

Nibali lost the tour by 6'19"
JVDB lost the tour by 10'15" (!)
Guys, that's a simplistic, black and white approach. Cycling...or life for that matter does nor work like that. Check what Dutcshmurf says:

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Originally Posted by Dutchsmurf View Post
But Airstream said Wiggins could have done that without strong helpers too. While it was those strong helpers who did all the tempo riding Wiggins needed to win. You say Wiggins kept him in check with tempo riding, but that isn't completely true. It was Sky that kept them in check. Without helpers Wiggins would have either ride on the front all the time himself, or you get a stop and go kind of riding with people attacking and being brought back. There is no way of saying if Wiggins would still have won, but he sure would have had to work a lot harder for it.
+1

If Wiggins didn't have his train, riders would have attacked left and right in different stages. As an example, in the stage Nibali broke away, Evans and VDB would have probably followed him. Say they wouldn't have followed, then Nibali wouldn't have given up that easy as he did.

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High steady tempo is not so spectacular maybe but sometimes it can drop any climber too. Absolutely anyone.
USPS ring a bell?
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  #1859  
Old 12-09-12, 14:24
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Originally Posted by Dutchsmurf View Post
But Airstream said Wiggins could have done that without strong helpers too. While it was those strong helpers who did all the tempo riding Wiggins needed to win. You say Wiggins kept him in check with tempo riding, but that isn't completely true. It was Sky that kept them in check. Without helpers Wiggins would have either ride on the front all the time himself, or you get a stop and go kind of riding with people attacking and being brought back. There is no way of saying if Wiggins would still have won, but he sure would have had to work a lot harder for it.
Hm, why Wiggins should have worked on the front being yellow jersey and having one more TT in store? He is an idiot. Wiggins would have defended calmly approximately like Contador in 2010. Even in a more easy key due to lack of attacking climbers in this year's Tour.

You are saying like if he had brought back it would have been doom. Yes, Wiggins would have lost something little by little, but not enough to waste entire TT fund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cineteq
Guys, that's a simplistic, black and white approach.
Which more complicated approach is it possible to see in that?

Last edited by airstream; 12-09-12 at 14:39.
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  #1860  
Old 12-09-12, 15:41
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Originally Posted by El Pistolero View Post
Cancellara didn't ride at LBL. So that only leaves the Tour. Hilarious how people still think he cares about his teammates after abandoning them in the Vuelta 2010. Wasn't in much form in 2011 Tour and abandoned in the 2012 Tour.

Oh and Contador doesn't need Cancellara, he has already won 7/8 GTs despite Cancellara helping his rivals. Matteo Tossato is a much cheaper buy and did a good enough job in the Giro 2011.
2012 tour he abandoned because his wife was going to be giving birth and he wanted to be there for it. And it's not like either of the Schlecks were contending for the overall and needed his help. As for 2011 tour, there's not much he can do if he's not in the form needed to do it. So those aren't the best examples of him not caring about his teammates. Plus he's shown countless times off and on the road that he does.
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