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  #71  
Old 12-09-12, 05:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ustabe View Post
So 2006 is the cutoff year?

I have two words to refute the ineffectiveness of EPO: Bjarne Riis.
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Originally Posted by Cavalier View Post
Bit of a baffling comment considering there's been a number of cycling EPO cases since then.
Apologies. The was missing.

In his affidavit, Levi Leipheimer confessed to stopping EPO in 2006 - you know, after Lance was gone and no longer forcing injections into him. And then he did his best GT performances of his career.

A number of other affidavits mention the same or similar thing - I think JV stopped as early as 2000, but then admitted maybe he kept using his doping products up so as not to waste them, for the next 3 years, but only intermittently. Or something. ... On a clean team. Where they wouldn't let him inject cortisone for a bee sting in his eye.

Many posters here say doping is gone, or ineffective, as the BP prevents anyone from gaining any advantage over any cyclist as long as the EPO user does not warm down and the clean rider does. Marginal gains now nett a greater benefit than EPO enhanced Hgb. Apparently.

And here we have some speed skater not only using EPO, but doing a 34 second PB, over 10km, which I am guessing is 12-15 minutes on skates, so a massive PB. A nobody, apparently.

Personally, I think the cyclists have simply learnt how to circumvent the system and are doing so. Successfully.
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  #72  
Old 12-09-12, 11:52
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Originally Posted by Dear Wiggo View Post
Apologies. The was missing.

In his affidavit, Levi Leipheimer confessed to stopping EPO in 2006 - you know, after Lance was gone and no longer forcing injections into him. And then he did his best GT performances of his career.

A number of other affidavits mention the same or similar thing - I think JV stopped as early as 2000, but then admitted maybe he kept using his doping products up so as not to waste them, for the next 3 years, but only intermittently. Or something. ... On a clean team. Where they wouldn't let him inject cortisone for a bee sting in his eye.

Many posters here say doping is gone, or ineffective, as the BP prevents anyone from gaining any advantage over any cyclist as long as the EPO user does not warm down and the clean rider does. Marginal gains now nett a greater benefit than EPO enhanced Hgb. Apparently.

And here we have some speed skater not only using EPO, but doing a 34 second PB, over 10km, which I am guessing is 12-15 minutes on skates, so a massive PB. A nobody, apparently.

Personally, I think the cyclists have simply learnt how to circumvent the system and are doing so. Successfully.
2006 is the cut off for what they have admitted, but that could leave them in a bit of a pickle. The fifth as people go on about is about not commenting on something if it will incriminate oneself. However immunity given they could spill all. However by suddenly stopping when lance left which it seems all these guys did doesnt that leave them in a pretty unfortunate position if it comes out that they have lied.
"Lance is gone so we all just stopped. We were all really nice guys who got bullied into it. We wouldnt do it ourselves.....not even entertain the idea now the beloved leader was gone that we might be able to grab a slice of glory ourselves, no no no we were not like that " how bloody ludicrous and when you look at the statements they were all written by the same guy.
Probably the same fella that headed up the "study" that didnt study anything saying epo doesnt work.
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  #73  
Old 12-10-12, 04:23
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Originally Posted by Kennf1 View Post
Well that proves it. All those cyclists from the early '90s through today took epo only for the placebo effect. That's gotta really upset the clean riders who dropped out of the sport.
Yeah....proof enough. Gives anywhere from 10-30% gain in sustainable wattage. The guy that went from "water carrier" to contender great example. The researcher doesn't act like he's tried epo. Try racing for a season clean, then raise the crit up past 50.
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  #74  
Old 12-10-12, 13:12
Aleajactaest Aleajactaest is offline
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Originally Posted by Athame View Post
Well OK, so EPO doesn't work but according to Lance Armstrong's Livestrong Foundation
(I know, I know) testosterone DOES work.

I just found this gem www.howlifeworks.com:

"Most people don't realize that testosterone is a vital hormone for maintaining
overall good health. An article from the Lance Armstrong Foundation's
Livestrong.com site, noted that testosterone stimulates the use of stored body
fat for energy and keeps you looking lean. It also helps in the battle against
cardiovascular disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, obesity, depression and
numerous other ailments."


__________________________ I think they forgot to add that it also helps you
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  #75  
Old 12-10-12, 14:34
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
I do not know if this has been posted already.

Taken from this article: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/...206-2awx3.html
This reminds of the old steroid studies done way back, almost a half century ago!
It seems as though all of the researchers/Drs got together to cull roid use through bogus (poorly designed) studies.
The results clearly showed that steroid use did not cause increases in strength or size.
If you looked into the details of each study you would have found they were all missing crucial elements.

For example participants in these studies didn't:
1) know how to train - thrown into a gym without a coach or any guidance
2) train at all
3) use weights or resistance - engaged in other activities instead
4) have enough healthy food available

Same old....
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  #76  
Old 12-12-12, 10:24
del1962 del1962 is offline
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Interesting that Canova doesn't believe that EPO works on his best athletes

Quote:
Also if I know there are drugs able to increase the ability to transport oxygen, I continue to think these drugs, like EPO or CERA, can’t work with the top African athletes. I don’t have any proof about this, but I have kinds of proofs that people looking at the effects of doping don’t have. The proof I have is very simple: I have many athletes between the best in the World, with some world record holders, AND THEY ARE COMPLETELY CLEAN. I can put my hands on fire they are clean. NOT ONE OF THEM ASKED ME DURING THEIR CAREER FOR ANY SUPPORT, LEGAL TOO. It was not part of their mentality to look for any type of aid. The top African athletes have an incredible confidence in their mental and physical ability, knowing their results depend on themselves only. The most part of these athletes, when not able to have a good result, don’t look for any excuse, simply accept the idea to be defeated by somebody else stronger in the race. If you believe you can run your best only using drugs, and you don’t want to use, you create a big limit to your motivation, and never can reach results connected with your real talent.
Elsewhere he has said because the Kenyan athletes where born at altitude then for them taking EPO is even more dangerous than for others,

Not sure if his arguments are credible or not

Last edited by del1962; 12-12-12 at 10:28. Reason: Canato corrected to Canova
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  #77  
Old 12-12-12, 11:59
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ulrichw's and Merckx index's posts should be moved to right after the initial post to expedite some folks' evaluations.

My own $0.02:

This type of "article" annoys me in that it is a review of, or commentary on, past literature with no original research. The authors seem to have a bias against using VO2 max as a parameter to describe performance ability. They argue against the findings of the other 10-15 papers that do find a benefit to using EPO.

You can go to Figure 1 of the article (available freely from BJCP with the link ulrichw provided) and look at the previous results...VO2 max increases 10-20% in every case it seems. I would take that any day and ride away from the placebo riders listening to music...

Last edited by Willy_Voet; 12-12-12 at 12:01.
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